Can You Make Me See Red?

Momma Angel wrote:

So, does this mean I shouldn't discuss it? Is there anything that you or anyone else knows 100% of everything about? Does that mean that you shouldn't discuss it?

I think the point is not that you shouldnt discuss it, I've not seen anyone say anything that remotely implied that. Instead, the point seems to be that you shouldnt present guesses or opinions as fact.

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Momma Angel wrote:

.. the Bible says God is a just God. If someone had never heard of God, a Just God would not hold it against them. It would not be logical or reasonable for a Just God to hold that against them. Common sense tells me that.

Where does the bible say that God is a just God?

Quote:

J_B, how many times have I put in posts that these are MY experiences, MY beliefs, MY opinions, etc? How many times have I said I am not asking anyone to accept what I'm posting but that I'm just relating from my PERSONAL standpoint?

You can say that as often as you want out of one side of your mouth while the other side says that the laws of the Christian God should be the law of the land. How can you pretend that you're not asking anyone to accept what you are posting while advocating just the opposite?

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Nimh,

I understand that. What I am asking is, do I have to qualify every single statement I make as:

1. Fact and provide proof
2. What I believe
3. I'm guessing
4. Common Sense
5. Logic
6. Just kidding
7. Thought I'd just say this to get a rise out of you
8. Etc. Laughing

This is a fact: Just because someone calls you a homophobe, racist, a bully, or whatever, it doesn't mean you are one. It means that person believes you are one based on what they believe combined with the information/behavior, etc. you give them.

So even if I do say these are MY opinions, beliefs, experiences, etc., some will always take it that I am stating it as fact and some will always understand that I am stating it from MY perspective and others will probably do a little of both, just as I imagine they do with most everyone elses' posts.

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Arella Mae?

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When the subject is religion and you say "God will overlook that, because..."

You are passing off that statement as a fact.

You speak for God all the time.

You speak as though you are God--rather than a follower of a religion.

The dithering post to nimh is just another example of you trying to squirm out from under personal responsibility again.

The only one here you are deluding is yourself.

You created an image of God you could tolerate. It's not the same one in the Bible.

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J_B Wrote:

Quote:

Where does the bible say that God is a just God?

Deuteronomy 32:4 ~ He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Quote:

You can say that as often as you want out of one side of your mouth while the other side says that the laws of the Christian God should be the law of the land. How can you pretend that you're not asking anyone to accept what you are posting while advocating just the opposite?

And you can and do the same thing J_B. Only you advocate what you believe is right. J_B, let me put it to you this way, ok? I read what you post and I understand it is from YOUR perspective. I do not take it that you are trying to get me to accept your way. I take it that you are exchanging your information, your views, etc., with me and then I am to decide for myself what I eventually end up accepting. So, you advocate what you believe and I advocate what I believe. But, neither of us can force anyone to accept either of our views. Sure, I'd like God's laws to be the laws of the land. But, I know it won't happen. I understand why it won't happen. I accept that it won't happen. But, it doesn't stop me from wishing it were so, just as it doesn't stop you from wishing God's laws weren't the law of the land (not saying that's what your wish is, it's just an example).

Oh! I just noticed! The Powers that Be changed my UserID for me! I have been reading what others have said about my Momma Angel userid and the problems they had with it. So, for the sake of harmony, I asked if I could change it. It was seemingly a bone of contention with some and I wanted to do my part to remove that contention.

And I'm going to go find a different avatar also! Woo Hoo!

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Deuteronomy 32:4 ~ He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Who wrote that? (and while you frantically google for that)

Is it just to bring people into existence for the purpose of torturing them, letting them die and sending them to hell?

Is it just to plan someone else's failure, actively make them fail and send them to hell for it?

Is that your idea of justice?

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Gus and the Dys were on the phone just know discussing the fact that Lash might become a humanist, is that possible?

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nimh wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
So, does this mean I shouldn't discuss it? Is there anything that you or anyone else knows 100% of everything about? Does that mean that you shouldn't discuss it?

I think the point is not that you shouldnt discuss it, I've not seen anyone say anything that remotely implied that. Instead, the point seems to be that you shouldnt present guesses or opinions as fact.

Even more specifically -- if you are presenting opinions or guesses that do not stand up to internal logic and are not borne out by what evidence there is (Bible verses, say), don't be surprised if you're not taken seriously.

Opinions and guesses do not automatically have value. You repeatedly ask to have your opinions and guesses valued, and take umbrage when they are not. Your choices are a) back them up in some significant way (internal logic, external supports, etc.) or b) don't ask to have them valued (and don't be bothered if they're not).

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dyslexia wrote:

Gus and the Dys were on the phone just know discussing the fact that Lash might become a humanist, is that possible?

I haven't decided. Will read more. I know what I don't believe, and I've been reading about the different types of humanism. Some seem to fit. I haven't chucked all my beliefs. But, definitely some. And, not flippantly, either.

Most importantly, why did no one call me!!!

PS-- I'm kidding. Don't call me, it would freak me out.

Laughing

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Arella Mae wrote:

...So, you advocate what you believe and I advocate what I believe. But, neither of us can force anyone to accept either of our views. Sure, I'd like God's laws to be the laws of the land.

Then stop saying you aren't trying to get anyone to accept what you are posting!

Don't be so sure that a theocracy in America is impossible, no one knows what the future holds. Try to imagine for me how you would react to a very real push towards a theocracy. What would you do if you saw enough changes in the way the government worked to begin to believe that a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy was gaining a foothold in Washington? Compare that to what you would do if you saw momentum towards a fundamentalist Christian theocracy? Keep in mind that both religions base their tenets on the Word of the same God as given to Moses and restated to Muhammad. It was Moses who claimed God as just and perfect. The same God who sent a messenger to Muhammad.

In this theoretical vision, what do you see as the law of the land?

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dyslexia wrote:

Gus and the Dys were on the phone just know discussing the fact that Lash might become a humanist, is that possible?

Gus has a phone?

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Quote:

.. the Bible says God is a just God. If someone had never heard of God, a Just God would not hold it against them. It would not be logical or reasonable for a Just God to hold that against them. Common sense tells me that.

Note the bolded words. Note that I explained about how logic and reason entered into this statement. I don't have a problem with something not being accepted. My problem is usually the way it's not accepted but I'm working on that.

Quote:

Opinions and guesses do not automatically have value. You repeatedly ask to have your opinions and guesses valued, and take umbrage when they are not. Your choices are a) back them up in some significant way (internal logic, external supports, etc.) or b) don't ask to have them valued (and don't be bothered if they're not).

If they aren't accepted, then they aren't accepted. I can deal with that. Not asking them to be valued, accepted, etc. I'm going to do my best to not take umbrange Sozobe. I have a problem with the way things are stated sometimes because it seems they are said to deliberately cause some kind of infliction, but I'm going to do my utmost to stop responding to that.

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Lash wrote:

Deuteronomy 32:4 ~ He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Who wrote that? (and while you frantically google for that)

Is it just to bring people into existence for the purpose of torturing them, letting them die and sending them to hell?

Is it just to plan someone else's failure, actively make them fail and send them to hell for it?

Is that your idea of justice?

You are trying to hide from these questions. Why is that?

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OMG, what I would do to have Lash's phone nymber right now! Laughing

There are lot's of folks on this forum that believe in God. Many, if not most believe in a Christian God. They post about their beliefs, views, Christian life and most of the time it's discussed without vitriol. What do you suppose it is about Mama/ArMae that gets so many other posters riled?

I don't have the same reaction to Intrepids posts, or Snoods, or any of the other posters whom I know to be Christians, as I do ArMae's. Why do you think that might be?

I'll add that I believe we all grow and learn at our own pace. It's just life, and this world takes all kinds in order to make it as interesting as it is. She may come to believe differently next month, next year or on her deathbed. So may you or I. Heck, maybe ArMae is actually teaching us something about ourselves through our reactions to her posts.

I just wish I knew what it was.

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Squinney,

I think that's the $64,000 question! I think I know why a few have that reaction because of clashes we have had. Now, you and I have not clashed as far as I can recall, so any input you could provide to me on this would help.

I am trying to back off on the "how" things are said thing bothering me. I need to focus on "what" is being said. But, if you have any ideas or suggestions, I'd gladly listen to them.

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Here you go, Momma. Don't give up hope on your dreams yet.

Quote:

Texas GOP: No church-state split
Party's platform calls U.S. `Christian nation'

By Marni Goldberg
Washington Bureau
Published July 8, 2006

WASHINGTON -- When the Texas Republican Party adopted its platform recently, party leaders left no question as to the importance it placed on religion.

The platform calls America a "Christian nation, founded on Judeo-Christian principles," and that has drawn a frustrated reaction from Jewish groups that consider the language exclusionary.

Another portion of the platform has stirred additional concerns. "We pledge to exert our influence toward a return to the original intent of the 1st Amendment and dispel the myth of the separation between church and state," the document reads.

Full article

Yes, I can see red.

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What in the world does Texas have to do with me, J_B? I don't live in Texas. I would imagine there are people that would vote for things like that as well as against. That's each individual's decision and right. I am concerned with what I vote. I can't make anyone vote any differently than what they decide to do and I'm sure not going to be ticked off at them for it. What good does that do? As long as they stay within the laws of the land in their lobbying I can't say a thing about it.

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They agree with your worldview.

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You're kidding, right? You don't think Texans elect politicians to federally held offices? Have you ever heard of Congress? You don't see how a changing face of Congress, one state at a time, is your dream come true? God help us all!

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Can You Make Me See Red?

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