The US presence in Iraq, how long?

Will the U.S. have a choice?
Will the U.S. have a choice about how long to stay in Iraq? That is, unless they do so by force. Would the Iraquis put up with being a captive nation? Thousands of Iraquis want the U.S. out of their country now. And already they are heading toward a fundamentalist Islamic government. The mullahs have begun the process. Kind of hard to stay where one is not wanted ... isn't it? (Therefore, I didn't "vote" in the poll.)[/color]

If the US were to pull out now or before a stable government is up and running. There will be a repeat of the Balkans. Civil war would be inevitable and anarchy will reign. Regardless of the pressures the US cannot pull out and leave the Iraqi's to their own devices. If they did the entire operation to remove Saddam would have been a failure and his regime IMO would have been the better choice.

Yeah, Au -- they are children and have to be lead around!!!

If we truly were interested in democracy (I don't think we really are) we'd leave and let them work democracy out for themselves.

If we impose it, we create a contradiction in terms.

If we facilitate it, we're hypocrites.

In any case, your question was: The U.S. presence in Iraq, how long?

My response:

No more than 40 years in any case.

That is when their oil reserves are expected to be depleted.

Frank
What is your assessment of what would follow if we were to leave the now? Or at least before a viable civil government and structure is in place?

just to complicate the issues it appears that, at least in Bagdad the local politicos are creating their own governments ignoring what the coalition forces are doing. Not unlike Afghanistan where the US manufatured government appears to only exist in Kabul with the remainder of the nation in the hands of the tribal leaders. What the coalition may indeed create is a paper government that can negotiate contracts as we dictate alongside a populist government actually running the country. confused? i know i am. in addition we have the additional intention:

Iraq unlike Afghanistan has a secular fairly well educated population who are quite capable of establishing a representative government. The fly in the ointment is the diversity of the population and century old feuds and hatreds. The best thing the US can and in my opinion should do is to aid not direct in the establishment of said government and act as a buffer between the divergent forces. If that does not happen civil strife is sure to follow. The Iraqi's will not allow the US to setup a puppet government nor can they avoid civil war without it's support.

"Soon after the British captured Baghdad in 1917, the civil commissioner, Captain Arnold Wilson, wrote a plaintive note to London, arguing that the new state being created out of three former Turkish provinces could only be "the antithesis of democratic government". This was because the Shia majority rejected domination by the Sunni minority, but "no form of government has been envisaged which does not involve Sunni domination". The Kurds in the north, Wilson prophetically pointed out, "will never accept Arab rule"." from: http://www.zmag.org/

LINK TO DYLEXIA'S QUOTE?
dyslexia - Could you please give a link to or source of your quote? Interesting! Thank you. :-) Charli

um seems that 60% of Iraq is Shia, not matter how you cut it that means a majority that leans strongly towards a theocracy of fundamental islam. Unless, of course, we are not actually looking for democratic elections.

dyslexia

The fact that they are Shia does not mean that they lean towards a theocracy. Generally from what I understand most people in Iraq are of a secular persuasion.

A truly "democratic" government --which would probably be a monster as bad as the one run by Saddam Hussein.

But "a democratic government" is what we said we want.

If we meant "a government of our choosing or chosen under pressures we exert" we should have said so.

But that would have involved telling the truth -- something the powers that be in this country have trouble doing.

Frank
You want truth and honesty? Where in this world does one find that. Every government lies or at least colors the truth. In fact everyone does. Truth is in the eye ofd the beholder.
Let's face it, there is your truth, my truth and the truth of everyone on the a2k.

Re: LINK TO DYLEXIA'S QUOTE?


Here is the full article form the NY Times

Yes, I do.






You really ought to be more careful about the way you use "every" and "everyone" -- or at least identify the stuff you are going to use those words with as guesses.

In any case, I suspect you may be right.

But since this particular administration is making such a big thing of moral values -- and allegience to this god of theirs -- it ought to be held to a higher standard of conduct.

Be that as it may, if we do want democracy over in Iraq -- we really have got to butt out as quickly as possible no matter what the consequences -- something these geniuses should have considered before their ill-advised invasion.

Otherwise we should drop all pretences and impose a government on the Iraqis -- then leave. They will then be able to fight a bloody civil war trying to get that anvil off their neck. My guess is, in the long run, more blood will be shed whether we leave now or stick around for a while -- and the resulting government will not be appreciably better than Saddam's -- and may very well be even more antagonistic to us than his was.




I think not.

Their may be your version of the truth; my version of it; and everyone else's version of it, also -- but there may be only one truth.

I suspect in this case, that ultimate truth probably coincides with my take on the situtation you raised rather than with yours.

(But I may be wrong.) ;-}

Au the "secular" government of Saddam was a ruling minority, i believe the majority Shia are not so secular and are very much interested in a theocracy.

dyslexia



You may be right and than again you may be wrong. Does anyone have the real skinney in that regard?

Frank
There is no doubt that your truth is the "TRUTH"

I strongly doubt that they emanate from Iraq. The sources of such cries are in Moscow, Paris and Tehran; Iraqis are used instead of loudspeakers to utter these on the site.

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! Add ten years to your life expectancy, then multiply that by 2. c.i.