Vaccine/Autism Link

i had a multiple booster shot for polio etc about three years ago. our doctor also highly recommended a shot agaainst the pneumonia "bug" - don't think i can spell "pneumoccial ???' properly.
recently started a three shot program against hepatitis since we are planning a trip to south-america.
when we were in germany three years ago i had to an outpatient clinic because i fell and cut my face rather badly. i was asked when i had my last tetanus shot. i couldn't remember, so they thought it best to give me one. the doctor was quite surprised that i didn't carry a vaccination record - apparently fairly common in germany.
we have some old, yellow "pox" vaccination passes that we still needed in the 60's and 70's when entering canada from germany - they can go to a museum ! hbg

Folks with no Book Learnin' have Medical Opinions, too.
A news story turned into an A2K thread on Autism debunked once again the notion that the mercury in standard childhood inoculations caused autism.

Then the discussion drifted to the people who have decided that childhood inoculations are dangerous for children and who refuse to have their children take the standard shots.

This led to the question "Why do some people feel that they are more medically astute than the medical professionals?"

I'm guessing that part of the answer is a damnable offshoot of democracy; that in a democracy everyone is entitled to an opinion and the notion that some opinions are worth more than others is downright Unamerican. After all, common sense tells you that shooting germs in a baby's body ain't no good for that baby.

Another reason is the Paranoia of the Little People who are sure and certain that "They" are out to get them. Doctors want to give babies shots because doctors and the drug companies that hire them want to make a lot of money off the Little People.

Some credit has to be given to wilful ignorance. Them doctors just think they're smart because....

Can anyone improve (or disprove) these lines of reasoning?

Damn, that was supposed to be an independent thread. I'll try again.

noddy : i think one problem is , that medical advice seems to change not that infrequently re. certain subjects. the layperson has a heck of a time to sift through all the information and becomes suspicious and defensive. i don't think that's very surprising.
to cite just one example : is a drink good for you or not ? i remember some years ago my doctor advising strongly to stay awy from even the smallest amount of alcohol. now there are studies showing the benefits - particularly to the elderly - that includes me !!! - of having a drink on a daily basis.
next there is the question of mammograms ... and so on.
don't misunderstand me, i'm all for preventative measures and have had plenty of needles stuck into all parts of my body - "it won't hurt a bit" - " hbg

Actually, the vaccine thing isn't just about mercury. There is also concern about the vaccination itself.

dlowan--

I've kept up on the literature about the Vaccine/Autism issue because of three Two-Steps-Removed autistic children of friends. For at least two years the medical establishment has been insisting that there is no connection and citing studies to prove their assertions.

hamburger--

You have a point about keeping up with the literature.

Yes, Noddy this is true. However, has the "medical establishment" ever provided an explanation for the high frequency of autism ( 1/200 babies )
now apparent in the USA?

I've heard that pollution and long term affects of additives in processed food are being examined as possible causes.

Also (this doesn't account for all of the additional cases, but maybe some percentage), it seems that autism is being diagnosed more readily in the past -- that is, child A wouldn't have been diagnosed as autistic 50 years ago, but would be ow.

They've found Autism indicators in infancy. Kinda debunks the whole vaccination thing.

It's a case of "my kid got a vaccine, and then my kid got Autism; cause and effect, forsooth!" Post hoc ergo propter hoc....

Well, I've got a foot in each pond on this subject. I'm not against vaccinations and I don't believe they cause autism, though I think that long term effects should be further studied as the immune system is a complex thing and there are many things about the human body that we don't know a lot about. What I object to are what I consider "nice to have" vaccinations being made mandatory. I had chicken pox as a child. I realize it can be dangerous for some small percentage of children, but I don't see it on the scale as polio and measles. Hepatitis B is another. Children aren't in the risk group for that disease, so why is it required? I can see doing those at age 12 or so, especially if the child has not yet contracted chicken pox.

Perhaps this goes to Noddy's questions, but I have increasingly less faith in the medical profession. With few exceptions, every encounter with medical professionals has left me with the feeling that 1) they weren't interested in finding the problem, 2) they had only one course of action (the prescription pad) that was supposed to solve all problems and 3) they were married to pharmaceutical companies. Having been prescribed antibiotics for a viral infection and other disappointments, I don't think it's unreasonable to question their advice. I can see how some parents could dig in their heels when their doctor or nurse roles their eyes at questions about the necessity of certain vaccines.

As an aside, I don't know about all states, but most don't allow homeschooling to exempt parents from vaccinating their children.

It depends where you live FreeDuck. We're close to the Mexican border and the influx of illegal Hispanics into California is enormous. These people have never had any
immunizations and their children share most often a school
bench with other children, so a mandatory vaccination for
certain diseases is necessary, at least here in California.
We even had outbreaks of polio in the southern region of
the city, and hepatitis A, B, and C is not uncommon here
either.

Some children have a mild form of chicken pox, others more
severe. I've seen the facial scars of chicken pox and frankly
I'd rather have the vaccination than contracting the disease.

I understand that, but a chicken pox vaccination is not guaranteed to preven chicken pox. There was an outbreak in DC maybe 5 years ago where most of the kids affected had gotten the vaccine. I'm sure their parents felt it was worth it and they probably got a milder form of the disease than they otherwise might have. Still, I object to requiring it. I might feel differently about Hep B if I thought the likelihood were greater that they'd contract it.

I understand that there may be a possible connection between computer use in fathers and autism in kids.

Bill Gates of Microsoft insisted that the company cover all health costs relating to autism and Asperger's. I have heard a unsubstantiated theory that Gates himself has Asperger's.

Knowing a few folks with Aspergers, and having seen some of Gate's public appearances, I doubt that Bill Gates has it.

I think there is a non-pathological social/ cultural near-equivalent to Asperger's, that a lot of techies/scientiests have. (Have I won the "overuse of hyphens and/ or slashes" award yet?)

Yes/no.

Asperger's ranges from next-door-to-autistic to next-door-to-normal.

Minimal neurological damage?

DR WAKEFIELD who suggested a link is going before a GMC tribunal for professional misconduit