Have only read up to page 8 or so, I'll continue the rest later....
For Brandon....I would like some evidence from you in the form of telling me specifically what would have to happen that would be evidence to you that God exists.
I'm definitley not one of those who would say to an atheist, "well, I could give you evidence, but you wouldn't except it anyway."
I heard a lot of atheists bring up the "give me evidence" clause, but then leave others in the dark as to what that would be.
To me, that's sounds very "I'll know it when I see it", and not very scientific. Maybe no one could ever come up with the evidence you ask for, but at least they would know what it is, so if they ever come across it, they could show it to you.
The "God doesn't exist because he couldn't" to me sounds as simplistic as anything.
I tend to have a very rational bent, and am very pragmatic. However, I also realize some things you just have to take on faith.
I'm sitting at the keyboard right now, and my husband said to me 1/2 hour ago "I'm going to Home Depot, then I'll bring home something for us to eat, see ya in an hour or so".
How do I know he isn't having sex with another woman right now? I have no evidence he isn't. I just have to take that on faith, and trust.
Please give me an example Brandon.
Momma Angel wrote:Very good point. What if it has been translated so horribly wrong? What if what we take as literal isn't meant to be? This is something that really gives me pause. What if we are so far off the mark we have lost the real message? Maybe this is what the faith part is all about? Believing there is a deep message there and accepting that it is there, whether it's been distorted or not? Will God understand that? Will He make allowances for that? I still have lots of questions, myself Questioner.
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Now this is where my rational side emerges. I believe if you are stopping for even one moment questioning something, you need to embrace it and explore it.
I believe taking something as literal without questioning it is terribly terribly wrong.
The reason? When a group of people on the whole decide that something is to be taken literally, and a minority doesn't, the minority will be persecuted until they are either destroyed or forced to comply. Hegemony.
If a group has guidelines, stories that give guidance and metaphors that help them all understand a way of like, all will have a feeling of assurance that although all their individual beliefs would obviously differ, they all can view it in their individual way.
Do I believe in the literal Bible? Absolutely not.
Do I believe in the God of the bible? I believe he is the interpretation of what some people wanted everyone else to believe is God.
Man lies.
That is a plain and simple fact of life. Man lies.
There has never been a time in human existance where man has not changed a word, a sentence, a whole event around to support his own agenda.
I believe that is what the bible is.
I am open to the possibility, perhaps even more than open, that the Bible was originally written by some well intended people who were inspired by something they chose to call God.
Since man lies, I am sure that no sooner was it written down than someone started fiddling with it.
For instance, the God of Exodus (and please, I'm paraphrasing, I'm no bible scholar) was downright, childish.
First, he's going to save you. He promises he's going to save you.
Then, he's going to destroy you.
Then someone reminds him of his promise. As if God would need to be reminded of his promise.
It continues back and forth like that.
To me, it so clearly resembles a parent, who, trying to get their child to behave, tells them the bogeyman will get them if they don't stop.
Maybe out in the desert, some of the people decided they didn't want to continue.....Knowing most of the group couldn't read, old Moeshe decides to tell them that it's written right here (pointing at piece of animal skin) that God will destroy them unless they tighten up and fly right.
OK, we'll stay. A short time later. Oh look, Moeshe sez, all is forgiven, see here (pointing at next animal skin)
Moeshe even goes so far as to actually write it down at some point.
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Those who believe the would was literally created the way it says in the bible sometimes say the alternative, evolution just is so unlikely, the chances are just too small everything could have come to the point we are at this very moment.
Oh ye of little faith. Are you saying God isn't capable of creating the world in exactly this way?
For those who say with God all things are possible, then you need to be open to this possibility.
