Hundreds killed in Hajj stampede

thanks deb very relaxing, but no sound card so it gets boring after 1/2 hour.

No SOUND???!!!

That is awful.


It has a few different sounds, too, just as it has different visuals.

My beef is with the bigotry of picking a single religion to hate, while ignoring the faults of others, and of humanity in general.

PEOPLE stampede. PEOPLE get killed in such crushes. It ain't a special, primitive, Muslim thing....

That not interfering thing drives me nuts.


I know it is a diffficult damn line....and child protection authorities get **** thrown at them no matter which side of the line they situate themselves upon, but there IS a law of the land about what can and cannot be done to kids.

It isn't perfect, which is why laws keep changing, but it is there.

Well I hope I made it clear its not just a special hatred of Islam that I share, it is a hatred of all irrational belief systems. I dont hate anyone. I hate the irrational and dangerous ideas, not the man. Hate the sin love the sinner as I believe someone said.

Will wonders never cease.
The truth wins out.

May you live long and prosper, Steve. (and be sure to marry a gal who wants to have a lot of kids).

Like the marines, excellence, in order to survive, only needs a few good men.

well thank you harris, and from mrs steve of 25+ years.

Zelpolator angrily said he would shake the dust of this site from his shoes, and excoriated us all as idiots. Yet he cannot help sneaking back to see what might have been written about him.

Vanitas, vanitatum

Actually, he has opened another thread...well, at least one, so he is sneaking in plain sight.

yes he did but thats before he read MY posts. I think mr Zelator is wonderful.

You are beginning to really frighten me.

We are not worthy . . .

We are not worthy . . .

not as much as I do me

I used to think that linking the words terrorist and muslim together was wrong. Not only did it drag down the name of one of the world's great religions but it was dangerous in that it could lead to the illogical and just plain wrong conclusion that all muslims are potential terrorists.

But isnt it the case that most religions have a dark secret they would rather not talk about? The fact that their intolerance of others has led to unspeakable crimes in its name? Christianity is not exempt. Neither is Islam. Moreover its not me who links terror and Islam, its the Islamic terrorists themselves. They justify line by line phrase by phrase what they do and why by reference to the Koran. They are Muslims. They are doing the will of Allah. They are fighing the kaffir, they are jihadists, prepared for a martyrs death and paradise. I admit I dont know much about Islam. But if these people say they are muslims and talk in this way, who am I to say they are only following (as Tony Blair says) a perverted form of Islam. How does Christian Mr Blair know un-perverted true Islam?

I expect every iman every mullah on every Friday and in every mosque to denounce violence as un Islamic. That jihad must be seen as purely the inner battle against sin. But they dont. Very few are stupid enough to encourage jihad but far too many are silent or fail to condemn. What I'm I suppose to conclude?

Huh?

This idiot is not even making that claim.


He appears to be saying that because there are often stampedes at the mecca thing, Muslims are especially dumb, or subhuman or something.

I have no problem criticising the idiocies of any religion or creed.


I DO have a problem with people whose sole aim seems to be to sow hate against ONE religion or creed, and in the west Islam is being regularly demonized and its adherents portrayed as subhuman etc.


Look right here at people like Gunga, at people who call Muslims towelheads, who say it is ok to denigrate the Koran in front of helpless prisoners, held with no charge or trial and tortured, and that the Moslems are stupid to revere their book, because the CHRISTIAN book does not order any such reverence??? How's THAT for prejudiced stupidity, the adherents to one set of "god inspired" stuff shitting on those who hold to another lot?



If there were Muslims here shitting on christians or the west, I would adore to challenge them and THEIR idiocies, too.......but we don't see a lot of that.

Meanwhile, I WILL condemn hate speech against Muslims, and gross generalisations about what "they" do.



Do you expect every christian priest to denounce violence as un christian every week? After all, right now, who has slaughtered more of whose people? Really?

How many professed christians, right here, do you see enthusiastically promoting the war in Iraq. What happened to "thou shalt not kill"? What happened to "love thy neighbour as thyself"? How many "christians" here do you see refusing tio acjknowledge America's (and Britain's, it seems) regular torture and mistreatment of prisoners? Of the American enterprise to deny prisoners every legal right it hypocritically spews it is killing Iraqis to bring to them?


I struggle against my own prejudice against Islam every day, and I expect other reasonable humans to do the same.

By all means fault people, including Muslims, for the idiocies and cruelties they perpetrate in the name of twisted versions of their faith, but spreading hate is adding to the problem, and calling people on spreading hate is not the same as saying that one cannot fault Islam for the wrong some of its adherents do.



I am sure that Islamic terrorists can find justification for their evil in THEIR damned Rorschach of ancient text, just as christians down the years have done, and continue to do, with THEIRS This is the problem with murky ancient documents full of the prejudices and nonsense of a few millenia ago. And that both sides can find great good....you don't get much better than do unto others as you would have them do unto you, do you?

I've made it clear several times that I dont hate anyone. I hate ideas that lead people to do harm to others. And yes commands to love one another and do unto others as you wish to be done by are noble ideas.

Regarding Christians killing Muslims, we are not killing them because they are Muslims, we are killing them because we need to take control of over the oil beneath their feet. Its nothing personal.

I can almost agree with that, with two caveats. The neo-cons are counting on it being something personal to motivate the dull-witted supporters of the Shrub and his Forty Theives of Baghdad; and, we don't necessarily need the oil beneath their feet--but we (meaning some of us) want it, and in the end, that makes no real distinction.

The modifier "especially."

Except that that word, along with "subhuman", only appears in dlowan's posts. She's either engaging in mindreading or putting words into the mouths of others.