Where does it say in the bible we inherit original sin?

I read too, or rather, scanned with interest, pulling to the side of the road a couple times to contemplate the view.

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OK, OK. It seems I am the only one who is too lazy to read it.

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Terry,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this but I wanted to make sure I gave it my best. Also, I'm going to split it up in a couple of posts.

Terry Wrote:

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I wouldn't have posted it if I could not back it up. Here are some commandments that Jesus broke:

Thou shalt have no gods before me. Jesus put himself before God when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

The sentence "Jesus put himself before God" fails because Jesus was God. How can God put himself before himself? Jesus claimed throughout all the synoptic gospels that he was God incarnate. If the statement "Jesus was God incarnate in human flesh" is true, then this problem ceases to exist. Here is a transcript from an essay about Jesus' claims to be God:

1. Mark 2:1-12--Jesus heals a paralytic. He had authority to forgive sins, which is something only God Himself can do. Then, to authenticate His claim, He demonstrated His power by healing the paralytic.

2. The miracles Jesus performed are a very strong indication of His divinity (because no mere human can work actual miracles by his own power). Jesus referred to the miracles in John 10:24-39 as proof that he was telling the truth. This passage is Christ's own response to the unbelieving Jews' charge of blasphemy (dishonoring God by claiming to be God). Incidentally, this section also includes a beautiful promise that once you are saved/born again/become a Christian, you can never lose your salvation. Verses 28-29 say we will "never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Here is another strong statement that He is God.) We can have the assurance of eternal security because we didn't earn salvation in the first place; it is a free gift (Ephesians 2:8,9).

3. During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

"I am." (Mark 14:60-62)
"Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)
"You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)

These are all ways of saying the same thing, written by different authors.
In John's gospel, he recounts Jesus' interview with Pontius Pilate (John 18:33-37). Pilate wanted to know if He were the King of the Jews. Jesus then talked about how His kingdom was not of this world. Pilate said, "You are a king, then!" Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king..." The truth is, he is King of the whole universe.

4. Jesus says in John 10:11-18 that he is the Good Shepherd. When you read this passage along with Ezekiel 34:1-16, you can see that Jesus was identifying Himself with God, who pronounced Himself Shepherd over Israel. The Jewish people, being an agrarian and shepherding society, knew and dearly loved this section of the Old Testament because God was using a metaphor they lived every day. So when Jesus said, "I am the Good Shepherd," and that whole John passage so clearly parallels the Ezekiel passage, there was no doubt that He was claiming to be God.

5. John 4:25-26. This is where the Samaritan woman, whom Jesus went to meet at the well, gets into a discussion of "living water" with Jesus. He pinpoints her sinful lifestyle (knowledge He would not have had as a mere human passerby), then He admits that He is the long-awaited Messiah: "I who speak to you am He."

6. John 5:1-18. Jesus heals a lame man on the Sabbath, which the unbelieving Jews gave Him a hard time about. His answer was, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working." It was a well-known Jewish line of thought that, although God rested on the seventh day after Creation week, He continued to "work" in being loving, compassionate, and just, as well as keeping the earth producing, keeping the sun moving, etc. In other words, although the creating had stopped, the maintenance went on--even on the Sabbath, and that was the only "work" allowed on that day. So Jesus is putting Himself on the same level as his Father in working on the Sabbath. And by calling God "My Father" (instead of "Our Father"), He was claiming an intimate relationship with God that far exceeded anyone else's. So in these two ways, He was making Himself equal with God.

7. John 16:28. "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." What Christ is saying here is that he existed along with the Father before being born. He "entered the world" by wrapping Himself in human flesh and being born as a baby. He grew up, fulfilled His mission/ministry, was crucified and raised from the dead (all part of the "mission") and then left the world to go back to the Father in heaven, where He is now seated at the right hand of God (the place of honor). He is the only person who ever existed before conception. That Christ was in a "pre-incarnate state" means that He is God.

8. (This is many people's favorite argument for the deity of Christ, including the author's.) First, turn to Exodus 3, where Moses encounters God in the burning bush. God tells Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses says to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM."

a) Turn to John 8:56-58. Jesus is talking to the unbelieving Jews. "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

b) John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

c) John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

Terry Wrote:

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Honor your father and mother. Jesus scorned and publicly humiliated his mother (Mark 3:31-34, Luke 8:19-21, Luke 11:27-28)

I see no evidence of Jesus scorning, nor publicly humiliating his mother. The verses you pointed out state: Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. 20Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you." He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." Luke 8:19-21

Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." Mark 3:31-34

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." Luke 11:27-28

I fail to see the scorn and public humiliation. Those are pretty harsh words would you say? All he did is make a theological statement. Notice in each event, the person talking to Jesus has their mind centered on the here-and-now. Jesus takes it a step further and declares the greater importance of God's word and God's will rather than the focus on the here-and-now. All Jesus did was shift the focus of the topic with his responses. He didn't mention his mother Mary at all in his statements. This is hardly scorn or humiliation.

Jesus also said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, -- yes, even his own life -- he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

Context is everything. For one, Jesus is not saying that you have to hate your family to be a Christian. Rather, its a term of comparison. In other words, your love for Jesus Christ and your commitment to Jesus Christ must make every other relationship "hate" in comparison to your love for the Lord. Notice also he is not saying you have to do this in order to be a Christian. He is referring to being a disciple, like the twelve that followed Him. Jesus was talking to a large crowd about being a disciple of his, and this comment was to make them understand that it's not some simple task to be a disciple of Jesus. Of course we love our family, but our love for Jesus must exceed that of every other person including ourselves. The key here is comparison, not literal hate for people in your household. It's a matter of priority and preeminence.

The Bible does not report a single instance where Jesus did or said anything to honor either his earthly father or his mother. When Jesus was on the cross, he told his brother to look after Mary and take care of her. Also, the very fact that God gave Mary the privilege to birth the Messiah is the biggest honor any woman could ever be given. The reason scripture doesn't constantly record Jesus honoring his father and mother is because it is not the primary focus of scripture. This does not mean he did not honor Mary or Joseph, it means that the synoptic gospels primary use was for doctrine and declaring Jesus to be the long awaited Messiah. Saying Jesus did not say or do anything to honor his parents is false from the start, as he was literally hanging from a cross and still had it in himself to exhort his brother to watch over Mary.

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Terry Wrote:

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Thou shalt not bear false witness. Jesus said he wasn't going to a feast and then as soon as the others left, he went to the feast in secret. (John 7:8-10)

Jesus said he wasn't going to a feast and then as soon as the others left, he went to the feast in secret. (John 7:8-10)" Here is what the scripture says: "You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come." Having said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. Again, I see no problem here. Jesus did not say that he was not going to go to the feast at all. He said that he wasn't going to go right then with the others. He then stayed in Galilee until they left and once they were gone he went in private.

Terry Wrote:

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Jesus promised to return within the lifetime of his disciples but is still not back: "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." (Mark 9:1)

This is in reference to what Peter, James, and John would see 6 days later on Mt. Hermon. When they watched Jesus transfigure they were seeing Jesus in all His glory and power. Right after Jesus makes this comment in Mark 9:1, the transfiguration is described. Many scholars believe that this is what Jesus was referring to. Notice that Jesus says that only some of the disciples will see this. Peter, James, and John were the only ones to witness his transfiguration on Mt. Hermon 6 days later. There is much literature on this. It is not a reference to the rapture.

Terry Wrote:

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Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

Paul claimed that Jesus abolished the Law: "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:25) "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Ephesians 2:15)

Instead of typing all this information in here, try this link: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/finaltorah.html

Terry Wrote:

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Jesus also taught others that it was Ok to violate the Commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery. The OT required that anyone guilty of adultery be stoned to death, but when a woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, he enabled her to escape lawful punishment.

This is from John 8. The Mosaic law was not broken because each of her accusers left when Jesus wrote on the ground. The Mosaic law required two or more witnesses in order to condemn the woman to death. here is what the text says: At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Because all of the woman's accusers split the scene as soon as Jesus wrote on the ground, there weren't two or more witnesses in order for her condemnation to come full circle. Hence, the Mosaic law was not broken.

Terry Wrote:

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Thou shalt not steal. Jesus taught a parable about a man who found a treasure in someone else's field and rather than tell the owner about it, he hid it and bought the field (Matt. 13:44).

The parable does not say the man found treasure in someone else's field, rather a field. No owner is recognized whatsoever. Even if we did grant that the field was owned by someone else ( which is not the case ), that does not mean that Jesus is saying it is okay to steal! Just because one tells a parable does not mean one agrees with every single aspect within the story of the parable itself. What matters is what Jesus is trying to convey within the parable as a whole. If you could find a moral problem or contradiction with the message the parable is attempting to convey, there would be merit to that. You are shifting the entire focus of the parable.

Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus' feet and wiped his feet with her hair. But one of his disciples objected, "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." "Leave her alone. You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me." (John 3-5) Thou shalt not covet. Jesus taught a parable about a merchant who saw a pearl and coveted it so much that he sold all he had and bought it (Matt. 13:45-46)

If I tell a story about a man who robs a bank, does that mean that I am promoting bank robbery? Does that mean that I am saying it is okay to rob a bank? Because one tells of an event in a story does not mean that he/she promotes that event. Rather, the story as a whole is meant to convey a higher point or meaning. This is what the focus ought to be.

Jesus also told a parable about a man who had a fig tree in his vineyard, did not find any fruit on it and wanted it cut down, but the vineyard man said to fertilize it and give it another year. (Luke 13:6-9) Jesus, however, got mad when a fig tree had no fruit (it was out of season) and killed it. (Mark 11:13)

Again, these are two separate events. One is a parable, conveying a certain point, The other was an action that happened in reality with Jesus in order to convey a completely separate point. They are not the same and they both have different meanings. The parable was about God's sovereignty and patience, as he dug around the fig tree even when no fruit was being produced. When Jesus got angry with the fig tree because it produced no fruit and killed it, he was saying in effect if you are not producing any fruit in your life as a follower of Christ, your faith is dead. James would later say "Faith without works is dead". They do not contradict one another at all. In actuality, they compliment one another. As a whole, they are saying God is patient and will work with you at every stage of your walk with Him, but if you are not producing any fruit in your life, your faith in Christ has no power and is "dead".

Terry Wrote:

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Some insight into Jesus' reputation among the Jews: The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, `here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' (Luke 7:34)

When you made the claim "Some insight into Jesus' reputation among the Jews", you actually pre-supposed what the bible says in the following verse is true. I think without even realizing it, you gave merit and authority to scripture. The question then is why did you only give merit to this one verse that you think defames Jesus and not any of the others that tell of his miracles, his healing the sick, feeding the hungry and poor etc? Here you actually have accepted scripture in order to get your point across. Do you see that? So now you are stuck in the position of accepting scripture while setting out to ultimately deny it.

Whew! I know that's a lot of stuff, Terry, but I wanted to make sure you were answered as fully as possible.

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Whew! I know that's a lot of stuff, Terry, but I wanted to make sure you were answered as fully as possible.

That you did Momma. That you did. :-)

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What is the definition of original sin?
I heard a preacher say that we are not sinners because we sin, rather we sin because we are sinners.
I'm not perfect. I've been told only God is perfect. So is this imperfection what makes me a sinner?

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Yes--but it's not anything other than being a material being, born blind to the spiritual side of reality.

We are all born into it--therefore we are all 'sinners.'

But it was a transgression from a long time ago--and it was also made right a long time ago.

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Momma Angel, I'm thinking about what you wrote. I don't have a lot of time right now, but will get back to you as soon as I can.

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Terry wrote:

Momma Angel, I'm thinking about what you wrote. I don't have a lot of time right now, but will get back to you as soon as I can.

No problem, Terry. I'll be here when you are ready.

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Where does it say in the bible we inherit original sin?

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