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Where does it say in the bible we inherit original sin?

 
 
Chai
 
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 12:39 pm
OK

Without any interpretations and going off on tangents, where exactly, chapter and verse, does it specifically say man inherited the original sin of adam? I don't see that anywhere.

If it does not say that in the bible, than I would purpose those who believe in the literal translation of the bible would say it did not happen, using the same argument that it doesn't say jesus married at any time, so for those believing the literal interpretation say he did not marry.

Isn't this supposed to be what jesus was saving us from? so, if it doesn't say we inherited this sin in the bible, what was he saving us from?

Regular everyday sin? I don't think so.

I'm not trying to create any sh*tstorm here, although I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen.

Very simply - WHERE does it state we inherited this sin?

from the little bit I just read, it seems like it was something the catholic church came up with, long after the fact. So, why would anyone follow the catholics in what the say :wink:

BUT, I do see where they say that in serveral places in the bible, both in new and old, that sin is done by the individual.

That's why I've always thought that while jesus was a fairly good speaker, that's all he was.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 12:40 pm
It's in the appendix which was removed when it became enflamed.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 06:57 pm
The words original sin do not appear in the bible.

But the bible does explain why we sin:

(You can look at this allegorically, if that makes it more palatable.)

Adam and Eve were endowed with perfect consciences and could not sin in any ordinary sense. In fact, they had only one moral choice: whether or not to abide by God's prohibition regarding the 'tree of the knowledge of good and bad'.

Their choice to eat of the tree represented their decision to decide matters of conscience for themselves and resulted in the ruination of their once perfect conscience.

Now lacking perfection, there was no way they could pass anything other than imperfection to their offspring.

Hope that helps.
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 07:42 pm
Paul wrote:
Romans 5
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned?- 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 10:27 pm
There are three types of sin. There is imputed sin, inherited sin and personal sin. I will explain these as we progress through the question. Sin originated in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. Look at Genesis 3:1-7 which states, "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say you must not eat from any tree in the garden?" This was the first of many lies Satan has told.

Genesis 3 continues, "The woman said to the serpent, we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden but God did say, ?'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden and you must not touch it or you will die (this is not exactly what God said either, Eve's first lie). ?'You will not surely die, the serpent said to the woman. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.' When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves." That's where sin began.

Now from this act of sin by Adam and Eve we get what is referred to as imputed sin and inherited sin. Imputed means to attribute or reckon or ascribe to someone. It's not just influence but involvement that is at the heart of the concept. Since Adam and Eve were the first created beings and we actually came from that beginning, positionally we were there with them in essence when this act was preformed. That sin was then imputed to us from them that is Adam and Eve.

Inherited sin is that sin that is passed along from generation to generation. That same original sin plus others that they made (Adam and Eve and their family) was passed along to us as an inheritance. Our parents inherited the sins of their parents and we inherited their sins as well. We will pass our sins along to our children and they will pass it along to their children. In your question you wondered about what David is referring to in Psalm 51. You can see from this that we have that original sin with us when we are born and even when we are conceived in our mother's womb. Some call this inherited sin others refer to it as our sin nature focusing on the fact that sin has corrupted the entire nature. Still others call it original sin, because Adams' original sin produced that moral corruption which had been passed along to all generations.

Then of course there is our personal sin, that is the things we ourselves do that are not pleasing to God or against his laws and decrees, Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." But, we have hope if we have accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Savior because Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Christ cleansed us from all sin when His blood from that cross washed our sins away. When we look at 1 John 1:9 it says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness." When we lie (even little white ones) cheat, steal, use God's name in vain, commit adultery, fornication, homosexuality, use harmful drugs, alcohol, murder, pornography etc., you get the picture I'm sure. These are not simply mistakes or coincidences. They are sins against God who loves us more than we will ever really know upon this earth.

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-sin.html
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 10:32 pm
The notion of inherited sin is to me one of the most repugnant teachings of Christians. Absolutely unacceptable.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 10:35 pm
edgar,

Let me ask you this then. Are you without sin? Does it matter if you carry the sin of Adam and Eve as opposed to your own sin?
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 10:38 pm
I agree, Edgar.
Original Sin in inherited from the parents when they teach it to their kids.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 11:04 pm
Am I without sin? That's a Christian concept, which I reject absolutely. So, yes, I AM without sin.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 11:07 pm
edgar,

Shocked The last person that walked on the face of this earth that was without sin was crucified.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 11:28 pm
No I wasn't.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Dec, 2005 11:33 pm
Now you are getting it, edgar. You are not the Son of God so you were not crucified.
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 10:57 am
Momma Angel wrote:
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say you must not eat from any tree in the garden?" This was the first of many lies Satan has told.
God wrote:
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
What makes you think that Eve or the serpent lied about what God said? God misled Adam by telling him that he would die WHEN he ate the fruit, which certainly didn't happen since Adam lived another 930 years, by which time I'd imagine anyone would be more than ready to pack it in. The serpent, however, told Adam and Eve the real truth: that the fruit of the tree would open their eyes. One wonders how the serpent knew this, and why God withheld the truth from Adam and Eve. Did God really want them to remain naked and ignorant?

For that matter, do you know of any lies the serpent/Satan/Lucifer really told - not passages that claim he lied, but actual instances of lies?

Momma Angel wrote:
Inherited sin is that sin that is passed along from generation to generation. That same original sin plus others that they made (Adam and Eve and their family) was passed along to us as an inheritance. Our parents inherited the sins of their parents and we inherited their sins as well. We will pass our sins along to our children and they will pass it along to their children.
God wrote:
Ezekiel 18
19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

Deuteronomy 24:16
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
According to Moses and Ezekiel, sin is NOT inherited, and they claimed to be speaking for God. Were they wrong, is the Bible in error, or might the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament be incorrect?

Momma Angel wrote:
]The last person that walked on the face of this earth that was without sin was crucified.
Whatever makes you think that Jesus was sinless, given that he broke several of the Commandments and did not uphold some of the Laws given to Moses by God himself? How do you define sin, if you think that someone who deliberately breaks God's Laws is "sinless"?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:02 am
The only people who are sinners are the ones that buy into the Christian guilt load. To the rest of us, it's pure hokum.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:06 am
Terry,

Adam is dead. He did die. God didn't say you will die this second. Until the first sin was committed, I think Adam and Eve would have lived forever.

As far as what Ezekiel wrote, I will do some reading and researching before I answer that.

And just where do you get that Jesus broke several of the commandments. Do you have scripture to back up that assertion?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:12 am
It appears that original sin, according to Genesis, was the pursuit of wisdom and enlightenment. If that's the case, I'll take it.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:18 am
Sin is not inherited. That is absolutely rediculous.

We inherit blue eyes, red hair, genes that give the propensity to certain diseases.

We do not inherit sin.

It was ezekial i was referring to, not david.

The aruguements for inheriting original sin, or imputed sin or adam's sin or any other name it is given was pretty much what I expected.

It's as though one wants to get from A to D, but decides to skip B and C because it would lead to a different D.

Sin, which I think of personally as "doing something wrong" is something done by the individual, not inherited from parents, grandparents or mankind as a whole.

True was Terry said, God was the one telling an untruth to Adam.

The part about the reason we die is because of adams sins. oh yeah, like we were all going to live forever otherwise.

I'd be willing to own up to my own wrong doings, but not someone elses.

It seems to me that this is one of the parts of the old testament that christians decided to keep because they could connect it to a savior concept.

just stopping in for a few minutes this new years eve....will be leaving shortly.

but haven't gotten any answers yet....anything else other than what has been said?

Oh BTW, wish me a happy anniversary, it's tomorrow, Jan 1.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:32 am
Happy New Year's Anniversary!
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:34 am
Ditto!
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2005 11:45 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Adam is dead. He did die. God didn't say you will die this second. Until the first sin was committed, I think Adam and Eve would have lived forever.

God did not tell Adam that he would die almost a thousand years later, he told him he would die WHEN he ate the fruit (some versions say "on the day"). I don't think that being threatened with death many centuries in the future after a long and productive life with countless descendents, is much of a deterrent, especially to someone who had never experienced death. It's unlikely that they would have lived forever anyway; God would undoubtedly been offended by something they did or didn't do sooner or later and used it as an excuse to get rid of them.

Quote:
And just where do you get that Jesus broke several of the commandments. Do you have scripture to back up that assertion?
I wouldn't have posted it if I could not back it up. Here are some commandments that Jesus broke:
Thou shalt have no gods before me. Jesus put himself before God when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. Jesus and his disciples plucked and ate corn on the sabbath and Jesus said, "The sabbath was made for men and not men for the sabbath" (Mark 2:23-28). They also ate with unwashed hands. (Mark 7:1-4)

Honor your father and mother. Jesus scorned and publicly humiliated his mother (Mark 3:31-34, Luke 8:19-21, Luke 11:27-28)

Jesus also said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, -- yes, even his own life -- he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) The Bible does not report a single instance where Jesus did or said anything to honor either his earthly father or his mother.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Jesus said he wasn't going to a feast and then as soon as the others left, he went to the feast in secret. (John 7:8-10)

Jesus promised to return within the lifetime of his disciples but is still not back: "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." (Mark 9:1)

Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

Paul claimed that Jesus abolished the Law: "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:25) "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Ephesians 2:15)

Jesus also taught others that it was Ok to violate the Commandments:

Thou shalt not commit adultery. The OT required that anyone guilty of adultery be stoned to death, but when a woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, he enabled her to escape lawful punishment (John 8:3-11).

Thou shalt not steal. Jesus taught a parable about a man who found a treasure in someone else's field and rather than tell the owner about it, he hid it and bought the field (Matt. 13:44).

Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus' feet and wiped his feet with her hair. But one of his disciples objected, "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." "Leave her alone … You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me." (John 3-5)

Thou shalt not covet. Jesus taught a parable about a merchant who saw a pearl and coveted it so much that he sold all he had and bought it (Matt. 13:45-46)

Jesus also told a parable about a man who had a fig tree in his vineyard, did not find any fruit on it and wanted it cut down, but the vineyard man said to fertilize it and give it another year. (Luke 13:6-9) Jesus, however, got mad when a fig tree had no fruit (it was out of season) and killed it. (Mark 11:13)

Some insight into Jesus' reputation among the Jews: The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, `here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' (Luke 7:34)
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