0
   

The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 01:45 pm
(Honestly, if 'Steve as 41oo' writes such ... ... and this on the very day of QE's 50th anniversary of her coronation ... ... )
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 01:53 pm
(I'm just an ol' Rock-n-Roller at heart . . . )

Go ! ! ! Go little Queenie, GO ! ! !
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 02:28 pm
Set, you mean Freddie Mercury Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 02:40 pm
Looks more like Garry Glitter, I think.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 03:20 pm
It's really quite a big issue in the UK:
Quote:

So were we misled? We need a full-scale inquiry
The PM has stretched his credibility to the limit and done serious harm to public trust in government
03 June 2003

In trying to make the case for war, Tony Blair stretched his credibility to the limit and has potentially done serious harm to his own standing and public trust in Government.
INDEPENDENT: Commentary by Charles Kennedy
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 03:29 pm
Quote:
Blair's popularity dips after Short quits
Tony Blair's approval rating has slipped back into negative figures in the wake of the resignation of Clare Short, according to the latest poll.

But the dip in the Prime Minister's popularity does not seem to have affected his party, with Labour maintaining its 12-point lead over the Tories in the ICM poll for Wednesday's Guardian.

And the idea that Labour could bolster its position by replacing Mr Blair with Chancellor Gordon Brown - as Ms Short came close to suggesting - was contradicted by the poll, which found that a switch would put off more voters than it attracted.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 03:38 pm
Story filed: 21:11 Tuesday 20th May 2003


That has been published two weeks ago, Scrat!
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 03:42 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Story filed: 21:11 Tuesday 20th May 2003


That has been published two weeks ago, Scrat!

Oh my GOD! It's ancient history!!!!!! Rolling Eyes


:wink: Actually, I hadn't noticed the by-line. I'll see if I can educate myself on the status of things TODAY. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 06:35 pm
Scrat said, about the trailers:

Quote:
have not seen a single report where anyone has claimed they might be used for anything else. I'd ask you to show me some, since you claim to be aware of them, but I know better...


I heard today that it was possible that the trailers were mobile labs used by the Iraqis to test for the existence of chemical or biological weapon usage in war areas.

Walter said:

Quote:
Bigotry is to be attached obstinately and zealously to an opinion that you do not entertain


Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 07:12 pm
Kara - Thank you for your input. Normally I would ask you if you might have a link or citation that states this, but I'm a bit gun-shy from being endlessly berated for doing such things (not by you, to be sure!), so I'll take your statement at face value, and respond that I find no report to that extent. Here is a sampling of what I have found:

Quote:
U.N. Inspectors Say Iraqi Mobile Labs New to Them
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Agreeing in part with the United States, U.N. weapons inspectors reported on Monday Iraq had not accounted for stocks of anthrax and had failed to declare what appeared to be mobile biological arms labs.

The only alternate use I've read that anyone has suggested is found here:
Quote:
The Bioweapons EnigmaNo traces of biological agents have been detected so far in the trailers, and search teams have yet to find the additional trailers that would be needed to convert the slurry produced by these trailers into usable weapons. The technical analysis simply argues that the trailers could be used to produce a biological slurry and that no other plausible use can be identified that would justify the high cost and effort of mobile production. Officials dismiss Iraqi claims that the units were intended to produce hydrogen as an unlikely cover story but acknowledge that trace amounts of aluminum, a residue of hydrogen production, were detected, in amounts they deem too small to be significant.

Frankly, I don't think we know for sure what these trailers are, and I suspect that the administration may be overstating their certitude on this.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 07:30 pm
Scrat, as I was posting that, I thought Hmmmm, scrat will ask for a link. Very Happy The comment I posted was based on the tail-end of some remarks I caught during an NPR show, I think it was TOTN. The theme of the show was the un-finding of WOMDs, and, (interesting to me) the "conservative" talker on the show was better informed and more articulate that the "liberal" one. I like that kind of stuff; it makes NPR more credible.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 07:32 pm
Kara - That's fine. I was just using your post as an excuse to vent about the frustrating attitude I've encountered from others here. No worries, at all! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 07:40 pm
Here's a lovely quote from Donnie that I'd forgotten...
Quote:
On March 30 on US television, the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said of the prohibited weapons: "We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/02/1054406134772.html
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 07:51 pm
Every time I read the acronym WOMD, I think of a story.

Two men, well past their first drinks, were sitting at the bar talking earnestly. One said, I think it is W-H-O-O-M-B. The other replied, Oh, no. I am sure it is W-O-O-M. The first man insisted that it was spelt W-H-O-O-M-B.

A gent at a nearby table had been listening to the men for a while, and he felt he had to intervene. He cleared his throat and said, Ahem. My friends, I should not interrupt but I think I have some knowledge about this subject. I am a gynecologist, and I can tell you with authority that it is spelt W-O-M-B.

The two men at the bar looked at each other, smirked, and one turned to the gent at the table and said, "Oh, now, are you really an expert on elephant farts?"
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:00 pm
For totn, Talk of the Nation, go to NPR[/b], and select TOTN from their programming drop-down--in which they usually have at the very least, a summary text. Kara, i have that on every day, but i just wasn't listenin' today--decided to actually do some work.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:04 pm
Scrat

Well done, you did a search. Here's another...


Quote:
President George W. Bush may be convinced that two trailers found in Iraq were used as biological weapons labs, but the evidence is far from definitive. Referring to the two trailers in an interview with Polish television before he departed for Europe last week, Bush said the United States had found weapons of mass destruction and banned manufacturing devices in Iraq. Reports from the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency support that view, but they are based on inconclusive information.
.
Intelligence analysts told reporters last week that the configuration of equipment in the trailers would not work efficiently as a biological production plant, is not a design used by anyone else and would not lead anyone to link the trailers intuitively with biological weapons. The intelligence officials took all that as a sign that the Iraqis were ingeniously clever in trying to hide the true nature of what they were doing from international inspectors. But the uncertainties leave open the disquieting possibility that the trailers might not be what the intelligence agencies think they are. It seems increasingly imperative, as this page has argued before, to get an authoritative, unbiased assessment from the United Nations or some other independent body.
.
Intelligence officials say they are "highly confident" of their conclusions because of what they deem striking similarities between one of the trailers seized last month and a description provided three years ago by an Iraqi chemical engineer who is said to have managed a mobile weapons plant. Unfortunately, it is impossible for outsiders to judge the reliability of this source, whose information was described as "absolutely critical" to concluding that the trailers were biological warfare units.
.
No traces of biological agents have been detected so far in the trailers, and search teams have yet to find the additional trailers that would be needed to convert the slurry produced by these trailers into usable weapons. The technical analysis simply argues that the trailers could be used to produce a biological slurry and that no other plausible use can be identified that would justify the high cost and effort of mobile production. Officials dismiss Iraqi claims that the units were intended to produce hydrogen as an unlikely cover story but acknowledge that trace amounts of aluminum, a residue of hydrogen production, were detected, in amounts they deem too small to be significant.
.
In an environment in which the administration is under pressure to come up with evidence validating its prime justification for invading Iraq, these judgments are too subjective and conjectural to accept without further corroboration. Unless independent experts are given a chance to examine the trailers and all test results, a skeptical world is not apt to accept the findings. President George W. Bush may be convinced that two trailers found in Iraq were used as biological weapons labs, but the evidence is far from definitive. Referring to the two trailers in an interview with Polish television before he departed for Europe last week, Bush said the United States had found weapons of mass destruction and banned manufacturing devices in Iraq. Reports from the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency support that view, but they are based on inconclusive information.
.
Intelligence analysts told reporters last week that the configuration of equipment in the trailers would not work efficiently as a biological production plant, is not a design used by anyone else and would not lead anyone to link the trailers intuitively with biological weapons. The intelligence officials took all that as a sign that the Iraqis were ingeniously clever in trying to hide the true nature of what they were doing from international inspectors. But the uncertainties leave open the disquieting possibility that the trailers might not be what the intelligence agencies think they are. It seems increasingly imperative, as this page has argued before, to get an authoritative, unbiased assessment from the United Nations or some other independent body.
.
Intelligence officials say they are "highly confident" of their conclusions because of what they deem striking similarities between one of the trailers seized last month and a description provided three years ago by an Iraqi chemical engineer who is said to have managed a mobile weapons plant. Unfortunately, it is impossible for outsiders to judge the reliability of this source, whose information was described as "absolutely critical" to concluding that the trailers were biological warfare units.
.
No traces of biological agents have been detected so far in the trailers, and search teams have yet to find the additional trailers that would be needed to convert the slurry produced by these trailers into usable weapons. The technical analysis simply argues that the trailers could be used to produce a biological slurry and that no other plausible use can be identified that would justify the high cost and effort of mobile production. Officials dismiss Iraqi claims that the units were intended to produce hydrogen as an unlikely cover story but acknowledge that trace amounts of aluminum, a residue of hydrogen production, were detected, in amounts they deem too small to be significant.
.
In an environment in which the administration is under pressure to come up with evidence validating its prime justification for invading Iraq, these judgments are too subjective and conjectural to accept without further corroboration. Unless independent experts are given a chance to examine the trailers and all test results, a skeptical world is not apt to accept the findings. President George W. Bush may be convinced that two trailers found in Iraq were used as biological weapons labs, but the evidence is far from definitive. Referring to the two trailers in an interview with Polish television before he departed for Europe last week, Bush said the United States had found weapons of mass destruction and banned manufacturing devices in Iraq. Reports from the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency support that view, but they are based on inconclusive information.
.
Intelligence analysts told reporters last week that the configuration of equipment in the trailers would not work efficiently as a biological production plant, is not a design used by anyone else and would not lead anyone to link the trailers intuitively with biological weapons. The intelligence officials took all that as a sign that the Iraqis were ingeniously clever in trying to hide the true nature of what they were doing from international inspectors. But the uncertainties leave open the disquieting possibility that the trailers might not be what the intelligence agencies think they are. It seems increasingly imperative, as this page has argued before, to get an authoritative, unbiased assessment from the United Nations or some other independent body.
.
Intelligence officials say they are "highly confident" of their conclusions because of what they deem striking similarities between one of the trailers seized last month and a description provided three years ago by an Iraqi chemical engineer who is said to have managed a mobile weapons plant. Unfortunately, it is impossible for outsiders to judge the reliability of this source, whose information was described as "absolutely critical" to concluding that the trailers were biological warfare units.
.
No traces of biological agents have been detected so far in the trailers, and search teams have yet to find the additional...

http://www.iht.com/articles/98195.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:07 pm
ps... and let's not forget the cute little fact that such 'experts' and 'authorities' who are investigating the trailers are in the employ of the US government.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:11 pm
I keep wondering why the US won't allow Hans and his inspectors back into Iraq? c.i.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:37 pm
Quote:
Does a 180-degree turnaround count as 'spin'?

"We found the weapons of mass destruction," Bush told The Washington Post last week. "We found biological laboratories...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two... We found them."

Yet Lt. Gen. James Conway, the top Marine commander in Iraq, remarked only the day before, "It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons." He added that it wasn't for lack of trying. "We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."

It would almost be funny, except that the say-whatever-you-feel-like approach seems to be working. Forty percent of Americans believe the United States has found WMD in Iraq -- or at least aren't sure, according to the latest polls.


Find all the links right here.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jun, 2003 08:40 pm
perhaps der Bush mispeakes hisself
0 Replies
 
 

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