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The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 12:09 pm
Lies are lies and blind is blind - you want the truth Scrat?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH SCRAT?

First, you must take the blindfold off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 02:07 pm
Heck is for people that don't beleive in hell
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 02:12 pm
Gelisgesti, I sent a reply to you in the "The neverending WORD ASSOCIATION GAME" which I'm sure got overlayed before you ever saw it. It concerned your by-line and went something like this:

I can never forget wounded knee because I was in the 1st of the 7th Cavalry and the Army has to tendency to kept unit associations in tact. The 1/7th as we all know has a history that goes beyond Wounded Knee - starting at Fort Supply, OK. It saddens me but I can feel that my tour was spend in an uplifting manner - thanks for the memory!
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 02:28 pm
BillW - Perhaps you can show me where the article states that the administration lied?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 03:08 pm
Maybe you'll believe some of these:
What was the invasion of Iraq really about?

Not intelligence ...

"Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld suggested publicly for the first time yesterday that Iraq might have destroyed chemical and biological weapons before the war there, a possibility that senior American officers in Iraq have raised in recent weeks."
-- New York Times, 28 May 2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/28/international/worldspecial/28RUMS.html

.. not defence ...

"The decision to highlight weapons of mass destruction as the main
justification for going to war in Iraq was taken for 'bureaucratic
reasons', according to the US deputy defence secretary [Paul Wolfowitz]."
-- BBC News, 29 May 2003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2945750.stm

... not to contain unconventional weapons ...

"The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency warned the United States for the third time yesterday of the danger of radioactive contamination in Iraq because of looting at nuclear sites and called on the Bush administration to allow his safety and emergency response teams to enter the country."
-- Washington Post, 20 May 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13249-2003May19.html

... not law and order ...

"In the months before the Iraq war the Pentagon ignored repeated warnings that it would need a substantial military police force ready to deploy after the invasion to provide law and order in the postwar chaos, US government advisers and analysts said yesterday."
-- The Guardian, 28 May 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,965067,00.html

... not concern for people ...

"People are confused that U.S. military forces, assumed to be all-powerful, have delivered little. They are unsettled by the lawlessness that has encouraged religious forces to step into the breach and vigilantes to dole out their own brand of justice. They are bitter at the promises -- yet unfulfilled -- of a better life that would follow the war. To many of its residents, Baghdad is a capital both liberated and occupied, but most of all just bewildered."
-- Washington Post, 27 May 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41990-2003May26.html

... not regional stability ...

"Now the tyrant has gone, and governments around the world are nervously wondering what this much suspected group of men mean to do next. With Baghdad still burning, the neo-cons' most senior official, Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defence, popped up to say that 'there has got to be change in Syria'. That comment ushered in two weeks of harsh diplomatic pressure from the Bush administration about the other Baath regime, though
Mr Wolfowitz quickly added that 'change' did not, in this case, mean regime change."
-- The Economist, 24 April 2003
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1731327
(subscription)

... not international security ...

"The United States may have scaled back its military operations in
Afghanistan, but continuing insecurity poses a threat to the implementation of democracy and the eradication of terrorism in the Central Asian nation."
-- Far East Economic Review, 30 May 2003
http://www.feer.com/articles/2003/0306_05/p020region.html (subscription)

... not respect for international law ...

"Amnesty said that the detention by the US of more than 600 foreign nationals, including Britons, at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba was a human rights scandal and that the prisoners should be released or charged. The UK, too, was accused of serious human rights violations. The report said that 13 foreign nationals had been interned without charge in 'inhuman and
degrading conditions' in high-security prisons under the Home Secretary's
Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act."
-- The Independent, 29 May 2003
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=410465

... not respect for human rights ...

"The United States is illegally holding thousands of Iraqi prisoners of war and other captives without access to human rights officials at compounds close to Baghdad airport ... The International Committee of the Red Cross so far has been denied access to what the organisation believes could be as many as 3,000 prisoners held in searing heat. All other requests to inspect conditions under which prisoners are being held have been met with silence
or been turned down."
-- The Observer, 25 May 2003
http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,963176,00.html

... and certainly not to curtail terrorism ...

"The bombings in Riyadh bring the battle against terrorism back to where al-Qaeda began. Mr bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia, as did 15 of the 19 hijackers involved in the September 11th attacks. Since the fall of their hosts in Afghanistan, the Taliban, many al-Qaeda operatives are thought to have fled to Arab countries."
-- The Economist Global Agenda, 21 May 2003
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1791578
(subscription)

Perhaps it was really about something else, afterall ...

"Iraq's resumption of oil exports under a new government would expose OPEC to considerable uncertainty. Iraq has the world's second-largest proven oil reserves. Flows of Iraqi oil to the world market unconstrained by OPEC quotas could further erode the cartel's already limited ability to set prices and might even trigger a price war, eating into the profits of its member countries. Such an outcome would surely delight the Bush administration as well as buyers of gasoline in the United States, the world's largest oil consumer."
-- Washington Post, 17 May 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1289-2003May16.html

Trouble is, as many of us predicted, America's vengeful and violent
response to September 11 has only made the world more unstable and more vulnerable ...

"No sensible opponent doubted that the world's most powerful military could easily crush such a lesser foe. The real issue was and remains very different: Will the Iraq war increase America's national security, as the Bush Administration has always promised and now insists is already the case, or will it undermine and diminish our national security, as thoughtful critics believed?"
-- Stephen F. Cohen, in The Nation, 19 May 2003
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030602&s=cohen

Scrat, We'll await your answers. c.i.
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 03:15 pm
What Wolfowitz actually said was that they had reached a beaureaucratic decision because they couldn't agree on anything else. Perle agreed with this.

That's called - in bushspeak - not telling a lie.

There is none so blind as he who will not see, for they are truly blind.

Tart - not only the libertarians. I've noticed more articles on Clinton this past week.

scrat - minds that are tightly shut hold onto their own little beliefs, and their biggest defense is usually to shout the same thing over and over. Or the same question over and over. Have you not yet realized that most of the world considers the whole Bush cabal as one to be wary of? As he himself said (so simplistically, as befits a little strutting person) if you're not with me, you're against me. And note particularly his constant use of the noun "I." A mark of a great something. In any case, it's nuts.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 03:19 pm
Nice, Cicerone. A+. Bee-ootiful! Thanks!
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 03:36 pm
Thanks CI

scat scrat
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 04:24 pm
Setanta...
Quote:
In fact, Kara, the lack of focus in Afghanistan, and the poverty of the allocation of troops and resources there, coupled with the focus on and the squandering of resources in Iraq, have given Al-Quaeda the opportunity to regroup. There is a resurgence in the Taliban, as well. In terms of a war on terrorism, this disgusting example of imperliast adventuring represents a significant set-back.


The great irony of the stirring-up of terrorism by our war on terrorism is best pondered in the middle of the night with a Scotch on the rocks.

Tartarin...CSLewis would indeed have something to say. But his view would be vast and overarching. He might make fools of all of us.

Scrat, I just heard on NPR the first admission that we were wrong about finding WOMD. I just got part of the story but it was a marine commander, I believe, who said we were wrong, there were no WOMD's there. Then the Admin. spokespeepul stepped in and hedged, fudged, and well, you know.

Scrat, when does a deliberate deception, based on whatever grounds of we-must-tell-the-public-what-we-want-them-to-believe, become a lie? I dunno. I remember my father, who was somewhat to the right of Charlemagne, sticking by Richard Nixon until almost the end. Then my father cried. He felt so betrayed. He believed, as so many people believe, that their prez would not lie, would not dissemble, would not spin. I have heard the same sentiments from acquaintances who believe, absolutely believe, every word our president speaks.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 04:30 pm
---and the war is not over as Bush claims...General Says Iraq War is Not Over. Then Why Did Bush Pull His Stunt on the Aircraft Carrier to Announce It Was Over. He Must Have Wanted to Show Off His New Codpiece.


"The commander of coalition ground forces in Iraq indicated that the attacks are the work of Baath Party groups loyal to ousted dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). ''The war has not ended,'' Lt. Gen. David McKiernan said. ''Decisive combat operations against military formations has ended, but these contacts we're having right now are in a combat zone, and it is war.''
--Gary Strauss USA TODAY, May 30, 2003

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20030530/ts_usatoday/5201117
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 04:37 pm
Quote:
scrat - minds that are tightly shut hold onto their own little beliefs

Like claiming that something was reported to be a lie when it was not.

Quote:
and their biggest defense is usually to shout the same thing over and over. Or the same question over and over.

Sometimes someone asks the same question over and over because others keep suggesting that they have the answer, but puzzlingly refuse to offer that answer.

But it's okay. I recognize that while you folks like to argue about the veracity of the claims of others, you're not real fond of being held to account for the veracity of your own.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 04:38 pm
<sigh>
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 04:42 pm
a
fubar
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:34 pm
CI Just got done reading the links for Scrat. Brilliant work, top class, best post you've ever done,

LOVE

Joe

hey scrat, what the hey? Do you not see the transparency?? If I tell you I am going to do something because of some reason and later that reason turns out to be based on falsity, do you just continue to believe everything is ok because I say so? If so, come over here, I have something to show you. It's a deed to a bridge I have to sell before I leave town.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:35 pm
Joe - Are you suggesting that you can show me this "falsity"?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:42 pm
there are none so blind as he who will not see
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:44 pm
Scrat, I've come to the conclusion that "nobody" can show you this "falsity." c.i.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:44 pm
Scrat: you asked for the information. CI provided it. DID YOU read the links in his post? Yes or no?
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:48 pm
Do I heard jack boots and "Horst Wessel Lied" playing in the background - no wonder there are such blind - - - -
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2003 06:53 pm
Joe - No I did not. I will now. Thanks.
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