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The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:41 am
It would make sense, considering the tremendous impact Islam had on the Iberian Penninsula. Literally, "Insha'allah" means "if God wills it to be so," and it has become a common space filler, much like the German "doch," or French "donc." Is "ojala" used the same way?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:50 am
Pues si. Ojalá is a "corruption" of inshala. In much the same way that inshala is a corruption of Insh'allah... Northern Spain and Southern Spain are quite distinct in rural "common" language, the north being French/Latin influenced, the south having lots of arabic words, authentic and distorted... In my village the women still wear headscarves much like the Palestinian ones, only yellow (azafran? saffron??!)
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:57 am
Has anyone here done Catalan? I understand that it is close to 13th Century Spanish, and contains many Classical Arab loan words.
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Tartarin
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 11:08 am
And some Greek, like Provencal. That was a melting pot, that area. Yes, I used to speak some Catalan, but only because I occasionally went to Barc, had Catalan friends.
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Kara
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 08:44 pm
Listening here, a bit daunted by such in-place erudition.
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Gelisgesti
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 08:54 pm
I saw Saddam at a 7-11 tonight ...... he bought a big gulp, two packages of twinkies, zigzag papers, and a copy of 'soldier of fortune magazine'.

Well, that is just as believable as the thought that there is anyone on this planet that would want him back in power.

Why is it that the real bad guys with all the public recognition have evaded capture while the rest of the deck up to and including Evil Eye Fleagle remain at large? What are they (Bushs bounty hunters) waiting for, an election?

Should Bush and his pals be charged with crimes on humanity?

Random ruminations
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 08:56 pm
Who would dare institute the charge against Bush and company on crimes against humanity?
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Gelisgesti
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:00 pm
Cart before the horse CI .... has he done the crime?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:03 pm
OK lady, what have you done with Kara?
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:08 pm
I am here, Ge.

CI, I do not understand your post. I may not indict Bush et all with crimes against humanity, but they have a lot to account for. Will you let him off free?
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:11 pm
He lied about the justification to have the war with Iraq which killed thousands of innocents; I'd call that a "crime against humanity." I'm sure millions around this world would agree as well as many Americans. The cart is not before the horse; there are thousands of horses before tis cart - dead women, children, and innocent men. c.i.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:28 pm
ci, you know that I understand where you are coming from. I am still trying to find how I can look at this adminstration with any cognition of what they knew and when they knew it. Their "philosophy" or principles are not something we know. We can look at PNAC and see a mind-set that has influenced the Bush administration hugely. But I look at a pragmatic entity, our government at any given time, and wonder how a larger political philosophy can be implemented. Is it not day to day and month to month? There is not a long lead-in time frame, given our politcal system. We do not tolerate philosopher-kings, we do not have the time for that. We are so forward-moving and perhaps we outleap our knowers in becoming doers. I am afraid for what we are becoming.

But crimes against humanity? I would see it that way, being a product of the non-violent mentality of a few decades ago. But life has moved on swiftly.

I read today of de Mello's dying plea to a colleague: Do not let them take the UN out of Iraq. He was one of a rare breed.
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:32 pm
Just back to language, for a moment, (And I will tie this up with Bush.) I used to know some Catalan, too, but my tongue has gotten very rusty. In Galicia, the northwest corner of Spain, it's still a different Spanish, closer to French. We have friends there who speak both langugages. One of my daughters is a tri-lingual translator, so I've also picked up a lot of gutter Spanish from her. And yes - ojala is kind of a filler (Daughter uses both words frequently.)

Anyone remember the touting of Bush's Spanish? Supposed to be one of his bonuses? That seems to have disappeared along with a lot of other things. Like his not showing up in New York after the Trade Towers until a week later. And Laura.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:35 pm
For instance ... Bush admitted that the Niger allegation was if nothing else...lame and claimed full responcibility. The legitmacy his stature in the world community lended a false sense of danger which led to the murder of ten thousand people.
His war has left unexploded bombs and sources of radiation that will continue to kill long after the battle has ended. What have the children of todays children done to deserve death and disfigurement?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:10 pm
kara, It goes beyond what they knew and when they knew it; they had all the necessary information that Saddam was not a threat to the US. That is the bottom line. UN inspectors were doing their jobs, and Saddam was contained. That's the bottom line. When Bush and Powell made their speeches, they claimed urgency. This administration claimed they "knew" the locations of where those WMD's were hidden. How long must we wait for them to identify those locations? We are now the superpower of aggression; a turnaround in world military policy. We have always believed our military was built for self defense - not for aggression. Saddam has attacked no country since the first Gulf War. He was contained by our No Fly Zone. The repeated rhetoric of this administration poisoned the minds of many Americans with lies. That this country is responsible for military aggression and the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqis must surely awaken the conscience of some people in power. This administration has succeeded in losing the trust of many of our friends across this globe. It has become easier for terrorist groups to recruit new members, because they see us as the occupier of a Arab country, and the supporter of Israel. Our economy is in a shamble with our national debt increasing to new levels every month to pay for this war. What is there to like about this administration? Please point those out to me, because I fail to see them through all the death and mayhem created by them. c.i.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 10:26 pm
Must to bed, ci. Back tomorrow.
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Sofia
 
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Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 11:46 pm
Quote:
The interrogation the other day of Tartarin by Craven 'lost child' de Kere was another good example of this new troubling withhunt ("do you believe 9/11 was a setup?" - answer me! - where were you the 7th of August at 2am ? - <applies electro shocks>).


There are threads upon threads about conspiracy theories and indignant declarations that QUESTIONS MUST BE ASKED about 911. With all this intrigue and allusion to some secret, devious culpability of the President in the worst US disaster in history--it is perfectly reasonable for those constantly accusing to at least be forthright with their opinions and knowledge--or proof on the subject. It was hardly an interrogation--but spewing empty accusations of the murder of 3000 Americans, and refusing to answer any questions about it, is cowardly and irresponsible. IMO.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 11:59 pm
Actually, I have to let you all in on this secret. Shhh... don't tell anyone I told you...the people who were behind Sept. 11th.....now, you can't let this get out.....i can't vouch for your safety if this gets around.....others have died for less....the people who did it were...ACK! GASP! ARGH!!......(splat!)

(Just kidding, Mr. Ashcroft. Very Happy )
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Sofia
 
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Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 12:26 am
Silly me. I keep thinking it was these 19 angry Islamists...


<Hobit--glad you're putting your disclaimer out there. I hear the CIA does not straighten your house back up after a good search. Very Happy And, Ashcroft, devoted man and public servant that he is--does not have a sense of humor. Cool Laughing Rolling Eyes >

Hobit--Didn't you have a German test yesterday? How do you think you did?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 12:52 am
Sofia wrote:
Silly me. I keep thinking it was these 19 angry Islamists...


<Hobit--glad you're putting your disclaimer out there. I hear the CIA does not straighten your house back up after a good search. Very Happy And, Ashcroft, devoted man and public servant that he is--does not have a sense of humor. Cool Laughing Rolling Eyes >

Hobit--Didn't you have a German test yesterday? How do you think you did?


Well of course Ashcroft is grouchy. Wouldn't you be grouchy walking ariound covered in crisco, like Burt Reynolds in "Striptease?" Very Happy

German test: High Pass. Took the Latin proficiency exam this past summer, High Pass, and just have to do French this Spring. Its the only time I wish I were an Americanist instead of a Europeanist. Americanists don't have to have foreign language proficiency, and often instead substittute coursework in stats or computers. (sigh).
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