Gel
I won't even attempt to determine your personal motive for including that very disturbing story and I will overlook your sarcasm relative to my attempt to promote something positive. It does however put a spotlight on the uglyiness of the culture we are attempting bring into the 21st century. We can assist the Sayyids in dragging them, kicking and screaming into the modern world, or we can give up and let the enemy drag us kicking and screaming back into the 6th century---which would you prefer?
Hey Timber:
Very happy to hear that your son is OK---not so happy to hear that he's still there though----regarding the heat, is it any wonder that tempers flare constantly? Whew---glad I'm not there but in attempting to visualize the obstacles and conditions facing those guys, I'm further in awe of their accomplishments.
Oh boy oh boy! Everything's great in Iraq and the bonnie boys aren't having such a bad time and the media (including the foreign media) are getting it all wrong, and (pant, pant), it's all just so joyous. Anyone else want a drag?
The media isn't getting it all wrong----just 99%-----except for the BBC---they are batting 100 % -------------wrong.
Well, it's important to realize that any media we disagree with is 100% wrong. When has it ever been otherwise?
It's when I hear other reporters crediting the BBC for getting the story first, for getting it right, and see the respect in which it's held by experienced and knowledgeable people, that I think, Hmm, maybe they're pretty good after all.
perception
Obviously not only the media are getting it wrong: aid workers are lying as well (I just heard a doctor from the local children hopital - actually our neighbour - who had visited and co-ordinated some medical help in Iraq.
He said, they had just a few hours water and electricity there, no airconditioning ...
timber
I'm glad, your son is doing so relatively well.
An aside: before and during WWI, wehad an "Hurra-press" here in Germany, in the Hitler time and in the GDR it was "homogenized".
An idea: in sports, always a trainer, manager or player of the winning team should only write newspaper reports.
I've always thought the bank manager should decide whether the teller made a mistake or not. And presidents surely have the right to decide what the press should write about them. And above all, the military should never be second-guessed by average citizens.
I don't mean to imply "The Press/Media" gets it wrong ... I merely submit there is more to the story than is published. No one maintains that the situation in Iraq is perfectly fine, that there are no problems, that there is no unrest. There are problems, some things are not fine, and there is unrest. However, those attributes are not the whole of, nor even necessarlilly indicative of, the situation. It is a work in progress. It has been subject to unforeseen circumstances, and will certainly encounter more of the same. It is neither unqualified success nor quagmire ... it is as it is.
The average Iraqi is arguably more secure in his person, and offered more opportunity for fulfillment and satisfaction, than has been the case for some generations. There are no governmental terror squads. There is freedom of press, religion, and assembly. And in many areas, particularly in Southern Iraq, the clean water and electricity are both more reliable and more widely available than had been the case under Saddam, as is medical care, particularly Post Gulf War I.
timberlandko wrote:And in many areas, particularly in Southern Iraq, the clean water and electricity are both more reliable and more widely available than had been the case under Saddam, as is medical care, particularly Post Gulf War I.
Reports on the scene contradict you.
Quote:Basra residents overwhelmed by the heat and angry about fuel shortages and electricity cuts bombarded British soldiers with rocks in a second day of protests Sunday. A demonstrator and a security guard were killed.
Elsewhere, four U.S. soldiers and a journalist were wounded in guerrilla attacks, and the U.S. military said a 3rd Corps Support Command soldier died of heat stroke while traveling in a convoy near the southern city of Diwaniyah on Saturday.
Basra had been one of the quietest cities in the country. On Sunday, the protester was shot dead after an angry crowd tried to block four four-wheel drive vehicles crossing the main bridge leading to the airport and the British military headquarters. It was not clear who shot the demonstrator.
Yahoo News
Hardly contradiction, PDiddie ... the current violence in Basra is as mentioned in the report atypical. The Sunni Triangle is the seat of the preponderance of violence. The reality is the situation is neither as rosy as some might wish it to be, nor as bleak as others might wish. Even in Baghdad, there are slums of unimagineable hellishness, and even in Paris there are thugs and beggars.
in an interview on NPR earlier this week, an iraqi working at a hospital reported that he was elated about the medical support they had from the americans, however he was afraid to walk home at night because the american army was likely to shoot or arrest him. i think this pretty much sums up the dichotomy of Rumsfled's invasion of Iraq. when we analyze the iraq epsiode from a strictly miltary operation it was a slam dunk from the git-go. however, from a socio-political perspective, it has been a disaster of egos. at some point we are going to have to bit the bullet and succumb to a new UN resolution and admit the US is not the all powerful panacea of world dominance.
Yep, there are crack dealers and whores working 15 minutes from my house, which is about 15 minutes from George and Bar's...what's your point?
Mine is (remains) that your son was sent to war on a lie.
Speaking from the relaxing environs of his Texas ranch last Friday, Bush told reporters that Iraq is a more secure place now and that progress was being made to create the first Arab democracy.
Bush's statements were overshadowed by the recent bombing of the Jordanian Embassy in Baghdad; 19 people were killed and more than 50 injured. The bombing was followed by looting and angry demonstrators who burned pictures of Jordan's King Abudllah and his late father, King Hussein.
While Bush was making the statement, Iraqis in Tikrit were mourning the death of a woman and her three children who were killed while pulling up to a US military checkpoint.
Less than 12 hours after Bush's statements, six US soldiers were wounded in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul.
Is Iraq more secure?
- Iraq was known to have WMD
- Iraq was known to have used WMD
- Iraq was to provide proof she had divested herself of WMD
- Iraq failed to provide proof she had divested herself of WMD
- Iraq actively sought to thwart UN efforts to discern that proof
- Iraq actively supported international terrorism
- Iraq persisted in violation of UN import/Export Sanctions
- Iraq actively advocated the overthrow of neighboring governments
- Iraq's people were subject to one of the most depraved, viscious regimes in history
- Iraq no longer meets the above criteria
Where's the lie, PDiddie?
Gosh--don't hyperventilate folks---my post about the media never getting it right was merely a kneejerk response to the derisive comment below.
Oh boy oh boy! Everything's great in Iraq and the bonnie boys aren't having such a bad time and the media (including the foreign media) are getting it all wrong, and (pant, pant), it's all just so joyous. Anyone else want a drag?
Just a comment though about how correct the media is----It will be interesting to see if that BBC reporter who IMO caused the death of Dr. Kelly, is banished to Siberia or just given a slap on the wrist. I also believe it is way beyond the scope of journalism to take the role of opposition to any administration as the BBC has in England----especially with taxpayer money.
I need to credit the New Yorker 8/11, p. 26, for that gem, above. Wasn't sure it would post!
Now, timber, we all know you here to be an intelligent, well-read fellow.
So why are you pretending to be ignorant?
You're not legitimately asking me to point out the lies.
You must be pretending they're not there.
What would one call that...blindness? delusion?
Really, I'm at a loss as to how to answer your question.
If you cannot see them, I cannot make you see them.
Timberlandko
Quote:The average Iraqi is arguably more secure in his person, and offered more opportunity for fulfillment and satisfaction, than has been the case for some generations
.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Baghdad is at the height of a summer that is long, hot -- and violent. As police return to the war-shattered streets to try to restore order, they are finding themselves in the middle of an unprecedented crime wave.
While the state-sponsored violence of Saddam Hussein's regime is gone, so is the iron fist of the police state it used to keep Iraqis in check. Police have no crime statistics yet, but Baghdad's morgue handled 47 times as many gunshot deaths in July as in the same month a year ago.
Officials attribute the violence to a variety of causes: looting and robbery; the settling of scores from the Saddam era; the release of many criminals just before the war; and gunfire by American soldiers, who many Iraqis accuse of opening fire randomly when they feel threatened.
