0
   

The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 10:26 am
Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in March it would be "unfortunate" if television networks showed this picture.
http://www.toad.com/us-censors-these/aljpicture2.jpg

But now the Pentagon released pictures of dead people. Pictures which allow full identification.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0307/gallery.hussein.bodies/new.qusay.jpg

Can someone explain the difference?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 10:29 am
can anyone explain donald rumsfeld?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 10:31 am
Can anyone explain this whole administration?
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 10:37 am
And about showing those pictures.

A senior US officer, Lieutenant General John Abizaid, said (back in March) he was "very disappointed" that al-Jazeera had chosen to air the picture in breach of the Geneva Convention. "It is not right and we will hold those (responsible) accountable for their actions.

Those bold words become very scary if you follow this link! Shocked
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 11:00 am
To be honest, I think they worried about that but decided it was better to have "proof" to show the Iraqis. Whether it's definitive, acceptable proof and worth defying the Geneva Convention for, I couldn't say! Clearly the Convention is not one of the bush administration's ten commandments...
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 02:40 pm
Tartarin, I think it has been obvious for some time that the hypocrisy of this administration is without equal. The photos are only the latest example.

LW, don't get me started on my home state of California. After hearing the news today, about the chaos that will ensue over this precipitate election, I may disclaim my birth certificate. Then again, perhaps they deserve, and will get, Arnold. Smile
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 03:11 pm
Hey, Californicators! Laughing
This subject is of great interest. Would one of you consider opening a thread about what's going on in Cali; who's running; your opinions about Davis and what's going on?

It would be neat to have your perspective.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 03:27 pm
It's such a pathetic ruse I don't know if there's much to discuss. So far only Issa is committed himself. I'd hate to say where he should be committed. Anyone wanting that job right now is out of their minds.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 03:28 pm
Including Grey Davis.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 04:03 pm
I think California is one more example of rightwing extremism and will eventually be tagged as that. The idea of SPENDING $30 million to oust someone they think is screwing California's budget, and the idea (excuse me) that intelligent Californians would go along with this is a gasper.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 04:26 pm
You could get Californians to sign a petition to place on the ballot a low forcing everyone to obtain a circumscision (and it might even have a chance of passing!)
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 04:34 pm
only if its an organic circumscision.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:21 pm
The rightwinger who set this recall up, paid for it, is apparently going to be the only Republican on the ballot? I heard that on the radio... anyone confirm that? Not Simon? Not Ahnold?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:40 pm
as i understand the situation, there has been no decision as to being a single ballot for recall followed a month or two later by another ballot for replacement vs a single ballot for recall AND replacement, many voters, even those with no love for Davis, are uncomfortable with the recall for a bunch of reasons -- its timing, its cost, and the sense, fair or not, that Republicans had their chance last year. And that's before Davis or the Dems have spent one penny on TV or radio ads denouncing the recall ...
He could walk away unscathed.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:53 pm
I think I just heard on NPR that it will be a two-section ballot, Dys. Hey -- you're three states over, so you ought to feel safely away from the madness!

Much as I think Gray Davis is a loser, I sure do hope he wins big this time. If California Dems have any cj's, they turn out in large numbers and of one mind.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 06:06 pm
getting back on topic, for purposes of political correctitude emminating from the bush administration, all references to shiia and sunni activities directed against further occupation of iraq by coalition forces shall be labled as "faith based inititives"
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 03:58 am
And getting off topic - apologies - Ooo seyz ze French 'av no zenze of ooomer? from

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1005497,00.html

Gail Brooker did plan ahead when she packed to go on a French holiday. She took steps to see that her partner, Peter Calder, just because he was in foreign parts, would not be deprived of the puff pastry chicken pie he fancies.

The result of her foresight was that police evacuated Toulouse airport and blew up Mr Calder's rucksack in the belief that the soft white rolled substance it contained was terrorist Semtex. The luggage - as security staff later put it - was eliminated.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 05:01 am
Execution
Where do we go from here?

July 24, 2003
Call It What It Really Is: Sick
A Nation of Assassins

By DOUGLAS VALENTINE

What do you call it when George W. Bush, without provocation and based on false pretenses, sends an army to invade a foreign nation; and then, without any attempt to negotiate a surrender, effect an arrest, or put this nation's leaders on trial and present evidence of their crimes, instead puts multimillion dollar bounties on their heads, relies on collaborators and spies to track them down, and then corners them and blows them away in their homes, in their own country?

Do you call it what the Israelis, who lately have done it hundreds of times, call it?

A targeted kill?

What would you call it if Saddam Hussein hunted down and killed George Bush's daughters in Texas?

Cold-blooded murder?

How about calling this sort of behavior assassination?

Why call it anything? A rose by any other name, right?

And don't even ask if targeted kills, cold blooded murders, and assassinations are legal or moral. Who the hell cares?

They're popular. It's so much fun, you can even find death cards on the Internet, naming the people that Bush plans to kill in Iraq. It's like a videogame, or that old Steve McQueen show, Wanted Dead or Alive.

Bush really gets into it too; "Bring 'em on," he said, playing the role of Paladin in Have Gun Will Travel; and since then a couple of GIs have gotten killed every day. But what the hell, it's a volunteer army, and it isn't you or me. So they die for Bush's vainglory. Who cares? It's the vicarious thrill that counts.

Back when the CIA was assassinating foreign leaders all over the world, in the 1950s, '60s, and 70s, they secretly liked to call it Executive Action. Those were the bad old days, when the CIA had to secretly go about its dirty business of mass murder. Back then they had to resort to euphemisms to get the job done.

In the Republic of Vietnam, first the CIA called the mass murder of its enemies, in their own country, elimination. But that sounded too harsh, so it changed the term to neutralize.

In 1967 the CIA created the infamous Phoenix Program to neutralize -- which meant to hunt down through informants and then kill, capture, torture and detain indefinitely -- a revolving annual door of some 70,000 members of Communist and Nationalist insurgents, and anyone supporting them politically or administratively, in their own country.

The United States government admits that the CIA killed some 25,000 people through the Phoenix Program. It did successfully and gleefully neutralize some hundreds of thousands altogether. They know how to do it and they're ready to cast the Phoenix spell worldwide.

Now we have it from Richard Perle -- one of the corrupt cabal that rules the White House, and makes Israeli policy American policy in cahoots with the Bush oil régime, whose loyalty lies not to the American public but to its own self-enrichment -- that America will not leave Iraq as long as some 30,000 members of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath Party, in Perle's words, remain active.

So now maybe they're gonna change the term to inactivating?

By inactivating, Bush, Perle, Wolfowitz and the other members of their criminal régime mean the planned mass murder of some 30,000 Iraqis in Iraq. If they do it the way they did it in Vietnam, just like Bob Kerrey's little mission in Thanh Phong, they also plan to inactivate the families and friends of these 30,000 people.

You can't terrorize insurgents into submission unless you do it this way, as the Israelis have taught us so well. You have to terrorize everyone. Just like the Israelis terrorized the Palestinians into a state of submission.

The newspaper and TV commentators applaud this Iraqi experiment in targeted kills and mass murder as boosting the morale of the American occupation army.

Just today the headlines hailed the inactivating of Saddam Hussein sons as a righteous act that was more than merely morally justifiable, but something akin to Divine justice.

And no one is astounded, because the vast majority of Americans were ethically inactivated a long time ago, through 50 years of government propaganda. In order to enjoy their SUVs and cell phones, they will rejoice while George W. Bush, in his role as God Almighty, cuts a swath of righteous savagery through the world, mass murdering everyone he and the cabal designate as their personal enemies -- just like George W. Bush, all by his little lonesome, tried convicted and sentenced Saddam Hussein and his family to death, and then went out and killed them.

From now on, Bush alone chooses who lives or dies, and no one can stop him. It is the One Commandment that the American empire is based upon. And that's how we have become a nation of assassins, void of conscience.

Call it Apotheosis by the Divine Right of Execution. Or call it what it really is: sick.

Douglas Valentine is the author of The Hotel Tacloban, The Phoenix Program, and TDY. His new book The Strength of the Wolf: the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, 1930-1968 will be published by Verso. Valentine was an investigator for Pepper on the King case in 1998-1999. For information about Valentine and his books and articles, please visit his website at www.douglasvalentine.com.

He can be reached at: [email protected]

Valentine's last article for CounterPunch was:
An Act of State: the Assassination of Martin Luther King
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 05:29 am
Ge, I could have written that article myself. Thank you for posting. It helped to see my anger and anguish in print. You know what I thought when I read the description of how they destroyed the builidng to kill the brothers? It reminded me of a video game writ large, like little boys finally getting to shoot to kill in the most dramatic way.

Steve, good story. I love the irony of her taking puff pastry to France. Maybe a bit of personal pride was involved when they blew it up?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 05:39 am
a
Kara, remember Salam Pax ...... was it really that long ago.....


Where is Raed ?


----------
"the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
----------

:: Thursday, July 24, 2003 ::

It is so unbelievable how they have wasted a chance to show Iraqis they really are doing something. It was the most useless of press conferences, first off this Sanchez speaks only in Militar-ese, meaningless words come out of his mouth while we are all hanging on the edge of our seats waiting for one single picture, definitive proof. It is so easy, all it takes is to show us the friggin' corpses. They do have them. Someone did see them and when asked why it wasn't sown to the public they came up with the moral issues stuff. Habibi it didn't bother you that all those Iraqis, Americans and British are being killed for dubious reasons, so why suddenly become so squeamish? Give the Images to Jazeera, moral issues have never stopped them from showing gruesome images, let them do your dirty work. All I care about is knowing, seeing, being 100% doubt free and that press conference proved nothing. An Iraqi journalist stopped me at the door of that hall and asked me whether I am American media (this happens from hanging around NY Times people too much), I told him I wasn't but I could put him in touch, he said he was a journalist with IMN (Iraqi Media Network, the coalition sponsored media tool) he said that he wanted to make sure that the American journalists understand that Iraqis have huge doubts and if we would go out on the street we would be told that the whole thing in Mosul was a farce. Actually I was on the street and did ask that question. And people do need proof. The Americans just fucked up. Just like they waited too long after the fall of Baghdad to show the Iraqis they have things under control they have fucked up again by first making the decision to kill the idiots and then not give us clear proof of their death.
At that press conference there was a gentleman who asked an extremely important question which was answered by Sanchez with "that is speculation. Next question." I later found out that the man in front of me was Fisk and the question he asked which we all want to be answered was: why was the decision made to attack with a force that would have been capable of annihilating a city block? Why did they opt for killing them when they knew their importance as sources of information on all sorts of things and the wish all Iraqis have that they be put thru trial?
Fisk started the ball rolling, sanchez was asked the same question at least 5 times in different ways and with it the question of how to prove this to the Iraqi people. And what do we get? Meaningless militareses. Beyond disappointing.
What sort of wake up call do they need? You get people saying the Americans are slow, the Americans are not fulfilling their promises. Don't ******* lose it, you are really stretching your luck, act act act. You came and gave people big hopes and you let them fall flat on their faces. I can't believe that there has not been a single big celebration, I went to the office this morning and one of the photographers was asking "so where do you think they will be dancing in the streets?". It doesn't feel like there is a reason to celebrate. People are still being killed left and right.
The only people who are having parties are journos and NGO's, oh and I hear OCPA has a disco night at the Rasheed Hotel once a week.
After the war with Iran was over people were in the streets for a whole night, dancing and singing.
I am just pissed off, this thing today has redefined anticlimactic for me. I still have hopes for the day they catch Saddam. Maybe we will have our street party then.

And I would like to add that Jazeera is the worst ever. They should be banned under Mullah Bremer's Fatwa banning all pro-saddam/pro-ba'ath propaganda. That political analyst they have, something al-ani, is a ******* saddamite.
:: salam 2:07 PM [+] ::
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » The US, UN & Iraq III
  3. » Page 166
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 05/06/2025 at 11:30:07