The US, UN & Iraq III

funny boy!

The energy papers - it always seemed that there had to be more in them than the raising of rates.

"Intelligence is the basis now of war-fighting," Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said on "Fox News Sunday." Because of that, he said, "it's very important to intelligence to say that facts really do matter, they count, they have to be accurate."


Speaking up for the Bush administration, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said on the same program that the decision to include the sentence "was made by the speechwriters and by the folks in the White House" using various intelligence sources that were thought reliable. If it wasn't, he said, much of the blame falls on former President Clinton (news - web
freakin' amazing, is Clinton on the Bush speech writing team?

So its come to this


Weapons of mass destruction

The wheels of justice turn slowly .... but they turn!


NAACP Sued Catherine Harris over Gerrymandering in Florida 2000 Election

Katherine Harris, Florida Secretary of State AND George Bush Campaign Manager used illegal and racist means to remove Black Voters from the voting rolls in Florida.

Source: TheTip, Various, 2003-06-19 00:00:00.000

Candidate: Republican Party


http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/2682236.htm

A federal judge warned Friday that he intends to stay on track for a trial in August on a voter lawsuit challenging the way Florida ran the flawed November 2000 presidential election.

U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped shrink voter lists to get out of the case.

The NAACP and four civil liberties groups are suing the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting.

"I am on a track for trial, and I want to be sure everyone understands that," the judge said. He added it was unclear to him whether reforms enacted last year eliminated the need for the lawsuit, as the state argued.

Assistant Attorney General George Waas argued the new state law was "a major undertaking born of a major cataclysmic election" and should be tested to see if it corrected the problems.

"New Florida legislation has significantly changed the waterfront as far as this case," said Raymond Bergan, attorney for ChoicePoint. The Alpharetta, Ga.-based company delivered names to be stripped from county voter rolls and remains in the case as a defendant.

But voters' attorney Anita Hodgkiss responded that voters "should not be forced to wait through another election to wait to see if the state has fixed it."

Voters complained that they were turned away for a variety of reasons from busy polls in an election ultimately decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. Many said they were improperly labeled felons who were ineligible to vote, and others said their registration forms were never processed.

"I felt like, as a citizen and a voter, my voice was heard today," Tony Payne of Fort Lauderdale said after attending the hearing. He said a co-worker who had never received as much as a traffic ticket was listed as an ex-felon, and said several friends were turned away by poll workers.

The judge noted he rarely rules from the bench but decided to do that in the voter lawsuit to show his "serious intent" to keep the case moving.

Gold was addressing procedural motions by the state Highway Safety and Children and Families departments to be dropped from the suit. They were accused of violating the federal motor-voter law by failing to process voter registration forms filled out at their offices.

"This is really a victory for the plaintiffs and the voters of the state of Florida," said Hodgkiss of the Washington-based Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights, who represented voters at the hearing.

Attorneys for the state and the company had no comment afterward on the ruling against them. Bob Sanchez, Highway Safety spokesman, said it wasn't unusual for dismissal motions to be rejected.

Gold must decide whether to give voters another chance to amend their lawsuit before the case moves forward.

Motion to Dismiss Denied

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/11/politics/main263337.shtml

A lawsuit filed by civil rights groups who contend black voters were disenfranchised last November won't come to a quick resolution.

U.S. District Judge Alan Gold has denied motions by Secretary of State Katherine Harris to dismiss the suit and by a county elections supervisor for a summary judgment. The judge's order was filed Tuesday.

The lawsuit, which included complaints from the Nov. 7 presidential election, asked the judge to eliminate punch-card ballots used in 25 counties, fix the state's system for purging voter lists and monitor Florida elections for 10 years. There was no effort to overturn the results of the presidential race won by George W. Bush.

"We're pleased the court ruled the way it did," said Anita Hodgkiss, an attorney with the Lawyers' Committee For Civil Rights Under Law. "All of these were important steps for us."

But the NAACP SETTLED!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/politics/main520754.shtml

Florida's top elections officials and a leading U.S. civil rights group said on Tuesday they had settled a lawsuit that alleged Florida systematically excluded thousands of minority voters from the 2000 presidential election.

The class-action lawsuit, filed in January 2001 after George W. Bush claimed the U.S. presidency by just 537 Florida votes, alleged election officials systematically kept blacks away from voting booths by illegally dropping them from voter rolls, improperly handling their registrations so they did not appear on voter lists or by simply turning them away from polling places.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People filed the suit against elections supervisors in seven counties and then-Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris but settled it with her successor, Jim Smith.

"It's a long time coming. We're glad to finally be here," said Thomasina Williams, an attorney for NAACP.

The two sides said the settlement will build on the Florida Election Reform Act of 2001, which included changes in registration list maintenance, provided funding for improved voter education and poll worker training, and created alternative voting and registration procedures.

"The most significant part of the settlement is how the central voter database will be set up, restoring to the rolls the people who were wrongfully purged," said Anita Hodgkiss, a plaintiffs' attorney with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights.

The agreement was filed with U.S. District Judge Alan Gold on Tuesday and must be approved by the court before the lawsuit is considered settled.

Since the messy 2000 election, Florida and some of its counties have revamped antiquated voting procedures, including the replacement of old punch card ballot systems with modern touch-screen voting machines.

"The settlement is significant because it means that Florida officials finally recognized the need to correct past election process problems," NAACP President Kweisi Mfume said. "The new state laws following the 2000 election did not go far enough to make sure all Florida voters would have equal access to the polls."

The NAACP had said the chaotic aftermath of the 2000 presidential election, won by Mr. Bush over former Vice President Al Gore after a fierce five-week court battle, provided evidence of "massive disenfranchisement of people of color."

The settlement will help restore voters improperly purged from voter lists, improve voter registration methods and help fix communication problems at polling stations.

Although the agreement effectively ended the litigation, Hodgkiss said the plaintiffs would be carefully monitoring future elections to make sure elections officials were abiding by it.

She said she does not expect the settlement to be in effect before the November general election because the Justice Department likely will review it.

The agreements filed with the court on Tuesday were reached with Smith; Florida Director of Elections Edward Kast; the state's Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and the Department of Children and Families, which are both involved in voter registration; and Hillsborough and Orange counties.

Separate agreements were reached earlier with five other counties, Miami-Dade, Broward, Leon, Duval and Volusia.

After Katherine Harris used her dual position as state election official appointed by Jeb Bush AND Campaign Manager for George W. Bush to fix the 2000 election by eliminating upwards of 90,000 people from the voter rolls ILLEGALLY, the NAACP sued to prevent it happening in the future.

But what about the greivious damage already done?

Well, the Supreme court took care of that by refusing to have the issue resolved in a factual matter in the state by the courts that had jurisdiction there. Score 1 for cheating, lying and stealing for political gain.



The NAACP Sued Katherine Harris

http://www.click10.com/news/1237092/detail.html

Katherine Harris, Florida's former secretary of state, wanted a lawsuit against her thrown out, but a judge has decided to let the case go trial.

The NAACP and four other groups filed suit against Harris (pictured), a former state election chief, and the county elections supervisor. The suit charges that black voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.

U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped purge voter lists to get out of the case.

The lawsuit cites the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting.

The trial was set for August, 2001.



The scoop

Well, there's hope, Gelis.

Where the heck did you get that avatar?!!

Dys -- On overnight radio last night, I heard Michael Medved doing the same thing with Dean's l6 questions (which he read off in part with an extremely scornful voice, accusing Dean of something just this side of treason...)

This is a verbatim transcript of a conversation I had with Tony Blair when he casually popped into my brain last night


Steve. Hi Tony you look knackered
Tony Blair. Yes Cherie wants another baby
S You're joking!
T No seriously she thinks she has another year or two left if she's careful. But I don't know whether I have at this rate!
S I thought it was worry over the David Kelly business
T Well that as well
S Thats the trouble with wars they have unpredictable outcomes
T Is anything predictable with certainty?
S Suppose not. You know I really wish I could say 'Well I had serious doubts about the war but I agree that the long term benefits will outweigh the current downside'. But there is no sign of any benefits at all yet. Its all negative. No WMD. No Saddam. No juicy contracts for British firms. Coalition troops getting killed every day. No sign of a democratic Iraq emerging. No elections. Billions pounds spent. No electoral advantage at home.
T Yeah I know. Its a nightmare. But it will get better, I'm convinced.
S Of what? Finding WMD? You even seem to be playing that down now.
T We had to have some legal pretext for going in there
S So what were the other reasons?
T Because I promised George that we would support them soon after 9/11. It was clear which way the wind was blowing even before that. America is and will remain the only super power. We might not like it but that's how it is going to be. Its better to be inside the tent pissing out....etc etc. And we will soon be dependent on imported oil and gas like the US. N Sea reserves are declining fast. The Americans are determined to secure control over their energy resources and that affects us too.
S But I thought you wanted Britain to lead in Europe. All you've done with this war is split Europe split the Labour party split the country destroyed the standing of the UN with the Americans, and killed a lot of people.
T I believe it to be a false and dangerous analysis to put Europe and America in opposition.
S But how can you hope to play a leading role in Europe? We're not even in the euro zone for **** sake!
T We are part of Europe. Geographically, culturally etc. We can and will repair the damage done with our European friends. But a rift with the Americans, aligning Britain with France Germany and Russia against them would be seen as a gross betrayal. That's something that would take a long time to recover from, and it would only polarise the world around the two camps, something I've already said to be very dangerous. Besides we have all sorts of treaty obligations with the Americans, dating back to WW2 and the cold war. Some are still secret. They bind this country inexorably to the USA. We share intelligence. They have certain rights over military bases here. For obvious reasons, the degree to which British sovereignty has been compromised in the past has not been highlighted, but its a fact in the real world in which we find ourselves.
S So we are not really an independent sovereign nation at all?.
T Depends what you mean by sovereign. We have sovereignty over our domestic affairs. But foreign policy has always had to take into account the reality of treaties and obligations entered into by our predecessors.
S So we went to war with Iraq because the Americans told us to?
T They wanted us on board for political reasons not military. But I would have volunteered our help anyway. I meant what I said about standing "Shoulder to shoulder".
S And who do we attack next?
T Probably Iran. But not till George has secured a second term. And not until our position in Iraq is consolidated. Even then it will probably done by coup d'etat rather than full scale invasion.
S So Afghanistan Iraq, Iran...What the hell is going on Tony?
T Look at the map. All the new oil and gas finds around the Caspian basin are land locked. We don't want to be reliant on pipelines through Russia, or through countries with regimes that are unstable or hostile to the West. America is desperate to spread its dependency on imported oil away from Saudi Arabia. Iraq fits nicely in this equation.
S So that sums it up.. oil?
T Not entirely. A new political dispensation throughout the middle east holds out the possibility of a lasting peace between Israel and Palestine..
S Well it might if that war criminal Sharon was serious about peace. But he wants continued war until he has established his Zionist expansionist dreams.
T People accuse me of giving everything to George Bush and getting nothing in return. But I have a serious promise from George that he will make middle east peace a central plank of his policy. Sharon may well have to change his dreams.
S Good. But I still think the war was unnecessary and illegal. Where ARE those weapons?
T As I said we had to come up with a reason for attacking Iraq that would hold water legally. It was the best we could do. And it wasn't totally disingenuous, although the WMD we were talking about were actually those Saddam might develop, rather than those he already had. Can you imagine a regime like Saddam's Iraq in that vitally important region with intermediate or long range missiles and nuclear warheads? He would hold the world to ransom.
S I think that's totally cynical and sickening. You take someone out because you think they might be a threat some time in the future. And you are prepared to sacrifice our troops and thousands of innocent lives to achieve it.
T Big power politics is a dirty game. Governments make decisions everyday that affect people's lives for good or ill. How many people have died in the Congo since Iraq? Investing now in the NHS or education, or conversely not doing so, can affect millions of people in the long term. No decisions are quite as stark as peace or war, but to ignore the fact that governments are making life and death decisions every day is to ignore reality. Furthermore I am convinced something had to be done about the Iraqi regime. If we ignored it until Saddam had really acquired nuclear weapons and threatened Israel or Saudi oil installations, we could so easily find ourselves in a nuclear war. I made the decision that a conventional war now was better than risking a nuclear war in the future.
S Well I guess you might be right. But you're still on the hook of the non production of WMD. It was on the basis of disarming Iraq, and only that, that the Attorney General deemed the attack to be legal. We haven't disarmed Iraq.
T But we got rid of Saddam
S You haven't even done that. He's still around somewhere making video tapes and organising resistance
T Its going to take time
S Time is something you denied to the UN weapons inspectors!
T Yeah well George was keen to get on with it. The weather was getting hot and we couldn't go next year because of the US elections.
S And another thing. You said it was vital to prevent WMD passing from rogue states to terrorists groups. Yet the Iraq Survey Group has only now started its work looking for Saddam's hidden weapons that you were convinced he had! That's over 3 months delay in post conflict anarchic Iraq with no law and order where anyone who was involved with the weapons programmes had an opportunity to make some quick cash by selling stuff to Al Qaida or the like. The very thing we went to war to prevent. Controlling and disarming Iraqi WMD was the only legal basis for our troops being in Iraq at all! The whole thing is a bloody disgrace Tony
T Well as I said it was the best we could do. After 9/11 the Americans invented a doctrine of pre emptive self defence, which was legal as far as they were concerned and they didn't bother too much about what the rest of the world thought. But it didn't wash as far as our Attorney General was concerned. He threatened to resign, but I told him he couldn't. So we agreed to build a legal case for the war around WMD. That's why I made the issue so important in the build up. Once the war started and it was clear Iraq was not using WMD and in fact probably did not have any WMD, then the issue became secondary. But I kept telling George that WMD were a lot more important to me than they were for him. The Americans were primarily interested in destroying Saddam's military and securing the oil fields.
S Which they haven't done properly
T But they've taken control over the oil
S Look, I think if you could be a bit more honest about the real reasons for taking us into war, you might convince more people like me who still have severe doubts about it all. People are entitled to be worried. If they think they have been lied to and conned over a matter so important as going to war, how are you ever going to convince people on anything else?
T I agree its a problem at the moment. But there are other issues where we can build a case on more solid foundations. I think its possible to win back trust in the longer term. And time itself is a great healer.
S Except for the dead. Now I'm getting tired of this, I think I will go back to sleep. Suggest you do the same
T With Cherie? Fat chance!

I wonder, when I will have such nice talks at night. :wink:

Good talking ( and you excellently remembered it!), Steve!

[Although, I missed some of the common words like naturally, beautiful, slim ].

Yeah, Steve, your recall of your talk with Tony Blair is beyond amazing. c.i.

Well I had a stenographer in bed. She took down everthing for me. (!)

How are you ci? When next on your travels?

Lowered the flag, wow - what a story!

Hi Steve, My wife and I are going on the Trans-Canada Train Tour from Montreal/Toronto to Vancouver on August 2. As for any subsequent trips, I may have to keep it on hold until I complete my civil grand jury service which ends on June 30, 2004. I've been looking at brochures for trips to Antarctica (very expensive) and the Baltic states. I'm also considering a trip to Dar es Salaam, Tanazania, because I've been communicating with a physician for about two years that I met through an acquaintance I met on my flight from Amsterdam to Tanzania three years ago. He was one of five doctors from poor countries that received an award last week. Civil grand jury service is very interesting, but we must keep all our issues and investigations secret - even from family and friends until our report is published at the end of our term. c.i.

Aw come on ci. Surely you can make a few posts on a2k about your Grand Jury duty, we promise not to tell!

Antarctica is cheaper if you go "off peak" i.e. from about March to September. Don't forget to take a torch.

Best of luck on your train journey. I found the canajuns very welcoming in BC (stands for bring cash)

You have that right! The US$ vs the Canadian$ has been losing value. OUCH! I was told some time ago that "you can't take it with you." c.i.

More republican values c.i.

Republican values? You mean people of other political persuasions don't do the same? LOL c.i.

No, republican values = payouts to the rich and corporation and let the US $ value go to hell!

Oh! Didn't know you were talking about the US$ value. However, BillW, the devaluation of the dollar against the Euro is not an all bad thing. It makes American products and services cheaper in the world markets, and more competitive. Not all bad; some bad for those of us that love to travel. c.i.

BTW, it also helps our balance of trade. c.i.

Steve!