0
   

The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 09:39 pm
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 09:51 pm
Well, I watched him as he was delivering that little bit, gelis, and he looked like not even he believed it. It was delivered in almost a monotone. I guess they don't know what else to say now.

And there was an interesting little bit in the NYT today. They(the admin) have hired an ad agency to work on promotion for the adults who might influence the young ones to enlist, working on the principle that the service offers opportunities for jobs, advancemnets, etc. The first two examples they've picked are a basketball player and ?. The other part of this story is that the advertising budget for this is about a million and a half. Originally it was for btween 15 and 20 million, but the war costs ate into that. And this little gem can be found in the advertising news section.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 10:35 pm
a
At last a voice of reason.... the world hasn't gone insane.


US fails post-war Iraq examination
By Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - In a sign of flagging confidence in the Bush administration's performance in post-war Iraq, a task force from the influential Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) has called for the occupation authority to give the United Nations a much greater role in establishing Iraqi political institutions, among other measures.

In a 25-page report, former UN ambassador Thomas Pickering and former defense secretary James Schlesinger offered what they politely called "several recommendations for mid-course adjustments" in the US-dominated occupation which appeared, however, to amount to a vote of no-confidence in Washington's course to date.


A must read
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 10:57 pm
Gels, This president and administration does not listen to outsiders to make their decisions, or haven't you noticed? c.i.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 11:07 pm
CI, http://www.pnac.info/

Bring ya up to date Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 02:57 pm
Rumsfiel, always good for a surprise:
Quote:

The US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, is discussing the idea of an international peacekeeping force which could be dispatched to maintain order in the world's trouble spots.
The idea is an apparent sharp reversal of the Bush administration's staunchly unilateralist stance. It also runs counter to the administration's strong opposition, on taking office, to tying up troops in peacekeeping roles.

US proposes world peacekeeping force - Rumsfeld floats proposal to end Bush doctrine of unilateralism
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 03:21 pm
Walter, Kind of late in the peace offering to the international community. I betcha the US fails in that arena too! Who's gonna be stupid enough to expend their families to danger in Iraq when this administration is already talking about how Iran is a dangerous enemy to security of the world? This administration still has not cleaned up the mess they created in Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq - and possibly Israel, and they were able to create this world chaos in less than three years. c.i.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 04:05 pm
Very inventive. International peacekeeping force. New idea. Wow. The scope of the intelligence of this administration astounds me. Uh-huh.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 04:08 pm
their "scope" is limited to mouth wash...and they should use it far more often.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 08:06 pm
At least once!
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 10:58 pm
Is it possible that this floater of an international force is also tied up with international financial help? The oil was supposed to be flowing by now, and income from that was supposed to finance the rebuilding of Iraq.

I don't think there's a lot of value placed on this admin's credibility in many areas right now. It really reads like they've backed themselves into a corner, and are just realizing the door isn't behind them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 11:02 pm
I think that door in the back has been closed. c.i.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 12:22 am
pardon this side issue post...but one of the key elements in our discussion on this thread has been whether or not you and I ought to believe what the government says, or what our media reports.

The following link discusses some events in Venezuela, government statements about them, and media coverage of them. I very highly recommend this piece.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16255
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 03:11 am
Pnac
Bllatham, thanks for the link.....u daman ...
It brought to mind this:



Springtime for Dictators

Robert Kagan
The Washington Post
June 25, 2000

Something called the Community of Democracies Conference opened in Warsaw today. It seems a bit anachronistic, though. These days it is the dictators who are in vogue, not the democrats. In life and in death, the Kim Jong Ils and Hafez Assads get more respectful, even celebratory press than the world's elected leaders.

Not so long ago, being a tyrant was hazardous to your health. The fall of the Soviet empire in 1991 capped a decade and a half during which more than a dozen dictatorships collapsed under various forms of American and West European pressure--from Marcos, Pinochet, Duvalier, Somoza and Noriega on the right to Ortega, Jaruzelski, Honecker, Ceaucescu and Gorbachev on the left.

In the intermediate aftermath of the Cold War it was commonly assumed that the world's remaining dictators would soon be swept away, too. But since the early 1990s only a handful have lost their jobs. Croatia's Franjo Tudjman, Nigeria's Sani Abacha, and now Assad conveniently died. Indonesia's Suharto fell victim to the impersonal forces of the international economy--the United States didn't even lift a finger to ease him out the door. Only Haiti's Raoul Cedras managed to get himself ousted by the Americans. Cedras must feel like an idiot, because the rest of the world's dictators have sailed through the storm and see brighter skies ahead. Even the embattled and despised Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic are about to survive their second American president.

The truth is, the democratic world has become a bit flaccid and is in a more forgiving mood than it was a decade ago. This week's democracy conference has the worthy goal of fostering cooperation to consolidate the many democracies born in the 1970s, '80s and early '90s--in the so-called Third Wave of democratization. But promoting democracy where it doesn't exist? Setting off a Fourth Wave? That's not part of the agenda.

Indeed, the conference organizers were hesitant to make clear distinctions between real and phony democracies. Attendees include such notable democracies as Algeria, Egypt, Kenya and Yemen. Meanwhile, Jiang Zemin is the toast of the corporate world and of the governments that do its bidding. Alberto Fujimori is deemed too valuable to be lost to a mere election, and so his recent electoral theft is winked at by his Latin neighbors. Fidel Castro is the great reuniter of broken families. Presidents-for-Life Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan and Aliyev of Azerbaijan are accorded the respect appropriate to 21st-century sultans. And as Vladimir Putin clamps down on the Russian press, after stomping on Chechen throats, his chief punishment is to be slobbered over by Gerhard Schroeder and Tony Blair.

Even pariahs are getting a chance at redemption. Kim Jong Il's smile has the American press swooning and the State Department dropping the word "rogue" from its vocabulary. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright has learned that Kim is "jovial and forthcoming and interested and knowledgeable." And who imparted this insight to her? The famously jovial and forthcoming party bosses in Beijing.

The new, softer approach to dictators is buttressed by grand theories about life in the post-Cold War world. The idea of forcing dictators to open their political systems now seems so 1980s. American conservatives fret about "cultural imperialism"; the left, such as it is, cares more about punishing the old Pinochet than about stopping a new Pinochet from emerging in Peru. In respectable circles the "inevitability thesis" reigns. The forces of globalization and the modern international economic system must spell doom for all dictatorships, regardless of what the United States and its allies do. So why do anything? Liberals who once demanded that the United States topple right-wing dictators, and conservatives who once toiled to undo communist governments, now worship at the same shrine of economic determinism, insisting that commerce and trade are the great solvent of international tyranny.

Republicans and Democrats alike put their faith in an imagined "iron law," according to which democracy must follow inexorably in the wake of economic development. Focus less on elections, they say, and more on building the "institutions" of democracy--as if the institutions of democracy in, say, Peru could be of much use when the elections are rigged or stolen.

Whether anyone actually believes all this is an open question. These are comfortable doctrines of passivity, well suited to these comfortable and complacent times. How nice to imagine that merely by enriching ourselves we can spread the blessings of democracy to everyone else. How much easier to provide endless democracy assistance to oppressed peoples than to confront their oppressors.

Someday we may pay a price for our present lassitude. The community of dictators works together at least as effectively as the community of democracies. Chinese hard-liner Li Peng just paid a friendly visit to Belgrade bearing millions of dollars in credits for Milosevic's starving economy. Milosevic, meanwhile, may be contemplating a sale of uranium to Iraq. Russia and China routinely defend both Iraq and Serbia in the U.N. Security Council. North Korea shares its missile technology with Iran. Iran buys cruise missiles from China. It's all very chummy.

And who says you can successfully consolidate existing democracies while giving a pass to the dictatorships in their midst? Would-be autocrats around the world won't abide by democratic norms if there is no penalty for flouting them. We may already be seeing a "Fujimori effect" in Venezuela.

Even in this globalized age of economic and technological miracles, the international club of dictators may well get bigger and more firmly entrenched. According to the Chinese press, Jiang Zemin recently offered Kim Jong Il some sage advice on how to evade the West's iron law: "Snuff out all [political] challenges when they are still at the embryonic stage." The son of Kim Il Sung probably doesn't need any lessons in snuffing. Nor does any other dictator canny and ruthless enough to have survived the 1980s intact. As the democracies consolidate, so do the dictators.

Robert Kagan, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, writes a monthly column for The Post.








http://www.newamericancentury.org/global_007.htm
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 05:23 pm
In its bungling occupation of Iraq, the United States has done the impossible. It is convincing many Iraqis that they had it better under Saddam Hussein.

There aren't many things worse than a dictatorship, but anarchy--the lack of any government or order at all--is one of them.

We promised the Iraqi people better than this. Specifically, President Bush, in his speech on the eve of war three months ago, told the Iraqis that the U.S. attack was "directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. . . . We will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror, and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free."

So far, not so good.

Iraq: Who Lied?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 05:37 pm
The big question is how long will GWBush supporters continue to follow his 'leadership?' It's too late after the Titanic sinks. c.i.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 07:30 pm
It won't surprise several of you to learn that I continue to believe we are doing quite well. The Middle East peace process is moving, however tentatively. The repressive theocratic regime in Iran is quite preoccupied with the increasingly strident demands of its people for liberty and freedom. North Korea has accepted the formula for regional talks and without promises of bribes for fostering the illusion of good behavior. The situation in Iraq is difficult, but progressing nonetheless. The administration is likely to get some form of international peacekeeping force, now subject to the will of the coalition, and not our rivals in the Security Council. The economy is picking up, despite continuing weakness in Europe and Asia. A Republican victory is virtually certain in the next election, and will likely involve stronger majorities in both House and Senate.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 07:35 pm
Then, the world is doomed! But, that's not surprising either, is it?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 07:43 pm
"And they lived happily ever after..."

Now you close your eyes, georgie; I have to go feed the unicorns, and when I come back I want you to be faaaast asleep...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2003 07:51 pm
THUD
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » The US, UN & Iraq III
  3. » Page 147
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/10/2025 at 08:13:58