fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 06:23 pm
@vori1234,
No, you're still not with it. "Truth" is "what works"...i.e. gives successful predictions (or retrodictions). The key issue is that it is our will to predict which fornulates science. So "science" cannot logically explain "will".
vori1234
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 07:03 pm
@fresco,
Did you mean that science can not logically explain why we choose to try to predict things?
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 01:01 am
@vori1234,
Correct.
"Scientific explanation" takes "prediction" as axiomatic. Axioms cannot be analysed by their own dependent systems.
0 Replies
 
vori1234
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 07:30 am
@vori1234,
So what is wrong with following science explanation as why we try to predict future.

Throughout the history different influences were changing leaving organisms.
Some of those changes resulted in creating organisms which were more or less interested in the ability to predict future. It seems that those that were interested and had capabilities in predicting future had good enough chance of surviving and this is why today we have organisms that are interested in predicting future. If will to predict future was something bad that would kill you on site today we wouldn'e have organisms that try to predict future.

So, conclusion is that we were programmed to have interest in predicting future by chance and that interest proved valuable in our survivale so we kept it simply by not dying because of it.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 08:51 am
@vori1234,
It's wrong because you are not taking care with the word "scientific" . Karl Popper gives the criterion of "scientific" as "refutable in principle". Your statement is not. You cannot appeal to an evolutionary survival mechanism because "the future" is too vague a term to be applied to survival thereby avoiding refutability.

At this juncture, I am suggesting a break in our dialogue because I feel I am having to go over basic principles which you can read for yourself in any "Philosophy of Science" book. Why not read up on Popper for example, apply it to your pet term "programming", and see if it survives. Then maybe you can report back with a thread of your own.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 02:59 pm
@vori1234,
Quote:
Did you mean that science can not logically explain why we choose to try to predict things?


It can. It's because we like it. Pleasure principle.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 07:42 pm
@vori1234,
vori1234 wrote:

Well I am sorry but I am not into philosophy.
I think philosophy is ability to create 500 hundered pages long book without saying anything but only making it look as it means something because sentences are grammaticly correct. . . .
LOL
I leave for a few weeks and see what happens?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 11:48 pm
@neologist,
vori evidently never studied Philosophy. He wouldn't be able to see his own shadow during mid-summer if his life depended on it. ROFL
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 08:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, but was he able to post that of his own volition?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:10 pm
@fresco,
Fresco, I heard somewhere recently that "truth" is what one can get away with among his contemporaries.
Laughing
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:29 pm
@JLNobody,
Then I'll never loan you money. Laughing
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:34 pm
@neologist,
Ha! Lucky for me we are not contemporaries. Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 01:58 am
@neologist,
You have money?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 06:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have Federal Reserve notes. Are they any good?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 03:58 am
@neologist,
No, they're worthless. Send them to me, I'll try to sell them for you.
imans
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:34 am
@cicerone imposter,
amazin how far u love to invent business profits from truth knowledge

which cant b but a lie

what might think smthg out of objective reality is only the liar

and while liars are by definition the opposite to what they say
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 08:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
It looks like imans has seen through your clever scheme
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 09:27 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

No, you're still not with it. "Truth" is "what works"...i.e. gives successful predictions (or retrodictions). The key issue is that it is our will to predict which fornulates science. So "science" cannot logically explain "will".


Every time I read this sort of reasoning of yours it gives me an headache the effort by which you establish the truth about "no truth"...I mean your concept is pretty much set in stone on the subject, can't you notice the contradiction ?

...2 point is that your will does not formulate anything your will only channels the energy to bring up work in any/some direction...why the hell science cannot logically explain will is beyond me...for one (in a single short sentence) fighting decay is a damn good reason to justify will...
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 12:08 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I'm surprised that some your previous comments about your appreciation of meditation seem to be negated by your "headache" in this matter. "Will to predict" is an aspect of samsara...i.e. of the mode of being which divides existence dualistically into what "is" and "what is not". It is within the meditational process of suspension of the ego and hence "will", that the meaning of my quoted remarks emerges.
imans
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 01:04 am
fresco has a point in what all existence seem to b objective so realities are true, bc of such event that occur as a plus to all truth
when truth was recognized existing in concept right objectively, that done became out free value parallel to truth value
but which truth cannot say

now, is the will really what makes sciences??? i dont think so

the will is not right, it is inferiority choice, to set as a condition what u need to get first before u could mean recognizin existence to b objectively real

so the will is never an absolute fact, then it is not sciences reason
and when wills are always wrong moves careless about present values to respect, then sciences can easily say all about wills if it wants to
like and more what i just did in one second

so fresco as a believer choice is always wrong
but the objective reference was not wrong

like sciences cannot say present value simply bc it didnt makes it so it cant step above true existing positive facts

which show sciences being useful to know what is wrong or bad roots

and that also prove how knowledge in truth is about evil only
0 Replies
 
 

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