Free Will

@Romeo Fabulini,

"A testing ground?" ROFLMAO

God already know what each human will do from birth to death. What's the test? He even know which children he will kill before or immediately after birth, because he's a "loving" god.

1 Reply

Quote:

Cicero claims: God already know what each human will do from birth to death

God tested Abrahams obedience by ordering him to stab his toddler son, but at the last instant said-
"Do not lay a hand on the boy, do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” (Genesis 22:12)
See, God said "NOW I know", which means he didn't know before the test.. Smile

Same for the rest of us, God is like a football team manager who gives us a team talk in the Bible telling us how he wants us to play, then retires to the sidelines to watch how we do-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ExIS/team-talk.gif~original

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@Romeo Fabulini,

But some of god's demands are to kill your own children - and that's open-ended.

Quote:

Gideon slaughters; God buries them alive; God kills the firstborns! .... One should not dismiss the Old Testament's repeated demand for the vilest atrocities as ... Consider women and children of your own family: No matter how sick they may lay, ...

and

Quote:

www.evilbible.com/god's%20not%20pro-life.htm‎
The Biblical God is NOT pro-life, he advocates child murder, infanticide, child abuse ... Of course my job as preacher of an Atheist parish is to give a sermon about .... Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends ...

Quote:

Jeremiah 19:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.

9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.

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In the past, of course God had to cull out primitive warlike heathen tribes to improve the gene pool!
That's why the human race has improved over thousands of years or we'd still be living in caves.. Smile

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Some people still live in caves. Many still live in grass huts with dirt floors.

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Quote:

Cicerone said: Some people still live in caves. Many still live in grass huts with dirt floors

As long as they pose no threat to the rest of us God will leave them alone.. Smile

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter, answering Romeo wrote:

"A testing ground?" ROFLMAO

God already know what each human will do from birth to death. What's the test? He even know which children he will kill before or immediately after birth, because he's a "loving" god.

You are both wrong. Not a testing ground, because Satan is the one demanding tests.

No foreknowledge, because we have free will.

It's late here.I'll have more fun with you guys when I wake up.

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Quote:

Neologist said: You are both wrong. Not a testing ground, because Satan is the one demanding tests

But God USES Satan by allowing him to test us, so in that sense Satan serves a useful purpose.
For example Satan has already convinced JW's to let their kids die for want of a transfusion!
I bet no atheist would let their kids die.. Wink

Jesus said- “There is no truth in him [Satan]. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies"- (John 8:42-44)

Satan in Gibson's 'The Passion'

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/satan.jpg

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@neologist,

You missed the whole point of my previous post. If satan is in control, then he can make everybody become sinners and kill them at will.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You missed the whole point of my previous post. If satan is in control, then he can make everybody become sinners and kill them at will.

Satan has been allowed (temporary) control of the world, but not our free will. I've posted this many times before; so if you need references, I can provide.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

I wrote:

You are both wrong. Not a testing ground, because Satan is the one demanding tests

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

But God USES Satan by allowing him to test us, so in that sense Satan serves a useful purpose.

Are you suggesting that God deliberately created the angel who became satan- that all evil and human misery originated with God?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

For example Satan has already convinced JW's to let their kids die for want of a transfusion!

He seems to have convinced the entire world to murder one another in war, a system you wholeheartedly seem to approve. Even you brag about your everyday carry, a useless item for wilderness survival, but an unmistakeable man killer. BTW, here is a photo of my everyday carry : Fierce, eh?

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/neologist/Everyday.JPG

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

I bet no atheist would let their kids die..

You bet?

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@neologist,

If god is all knowing, he knew from the very beginning that an angel would become satan. He let "that" happen. God could have destroyed that angel before the fact.

Otherwise, god is not omnipotent or knows all. He sacrificed jesus, why not an angel? All angels belong to god no matter how you wish to twist this scenario. Doesn't make any sense - common sense.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

If god is all knowing, he knew from the very beginning that an angel would become satan. He let "that" happen. God could have destroyed that angel before the fact.

That is the consequence God had to accommodate in order to allow free will. You want free will? You got it. That makes YOU responsible for your sins.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Otherwise, god is not omnipotent or knows all. He sacrificed jesus, why not an angel? All angels belong to god no matter how you wish to twist this scenario. Doesn't make any sense - common sense.

Satan's challenge demanded the best. In order for mankind to be redeemed, all that was necessary was for a perfect human to substitute for Adam. Could have just lived and then died in his sleep. All of the rest, the best of God's children, the most painful death as a traitor and blasphemer, that was Satan's idea.

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@neologist,

When you say "free will," what are you talking about? God is the one who set up this idea that has no sense to what animals do on this planet. We all have sex, reproduce, and do everything that is considered "natural" under the sun.

That's free will. What other free will is there?

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@cicerone imposter,

Our entire legal system is predicated on the idea of free will.
Yet, few seem to understand that our first parents also had free will and chose to disobey.

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@neologist,

Our 'first parents' came from Africa.
Our laws are not predicated on free will; it's based on laws created by other men.

Quote:

criminal law is based upon a theory of punishing the vicious will.

Some still have the death penalty.

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@cicerone imposter,

Who are you quoting, CI?

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@neologist,

It doesn't matter who I'm quoting; those are the facts that I agree with. It's too bad you're unable to 'see it.'

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@cicerone imposter,

I googled your quote and found it to be couched in a discussion of free will. So, what's your point?

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@neologist,

If you can't figure out what,

Quote:

criminal law is based upon a theory of punishing the vicious will,

that's a problem you'll have to figure out on your own.

1 Reply

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