Free Will

cicerone imposter wrote:

real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

Who?

Guess; you get more than one. BTW, we're talking about free will in concert with free action.

How many in this world do you really think has "free will?" Do you? Explain how?

Well, as I stated previously, I am surprised that a materialist such as you would believe that even one person has a free will.

If we are indeed only a mobile chemical reaction, the idea of free will for interacting chemicals is ludicrous.

So I'm interested to see how you can say that ANY have free will.

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CI has solved the problem of free will and determinism by giving a little bit of yes to both.

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thank him for me, although i'd hate to think it took 69 pages.

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I know for a fact that those of you ingrained with the christian religion do not have free will. The evidence is obvious; you have lost all common sense and logic to believe what you believe.

Let me clue you on one fact; there is no invisible friend called "god."

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logic isn't everything.

anyone ingrained to *anything* has lost a bit of free will, but free will isn't everything, either. i'm farther left than most liberals, but i respect anarchists more than most on the far-left. still, there are many different kinds of freedom. sometimes being on a yoke in one sense means in another way, you're more free. i don't think mainstream christianity is like that, but i don't think christianity is all that common.

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Christianity in the US isn't that common; only 90 percent are christians.

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well, i think it's common that people think they're christians, but they've got to be kidding.

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tinygiraffe wrote:

well, i think it's common that people think they're christians, but they've got to be kidding.

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tinygiraffe wrote:

well, i think it's common that people think they're christians, but they've got to be kidding.

I hear this statement from many christians; it's almost too ironic that one christian can comment on other christians about their own beliefs.

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Many who profess to be Christians are not recognizable according to Jesus' statement at John 13:35

"By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves."

SIR ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE wrote:

I can clearly see that, in honesty, men must either give up war, or else they must confess that the words of the redeemer are too lofty for them, and that there is no longer any use in pretending that His teaching can be reduced to practice. I have seen a Christian minister blessing a cannon which had just been founded, and another blessing a warship as it glided from the slips. They, the so-called representatives of Christ, blessed these engines of destruction which cruel man has devised to destroy and tear his fellow-worms. What would we say if we read in holy writ of our Lord having blessed the battering-rams and catapults of the legions? Would we think that it was in agreement with his teaching?

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neo, We really don't need Sir Arthur to tell us what is wrong with (ALL) religion. The nature of man over-rides anything that can be taught by other humans - especially religious ones. Wars are part and parcel of human nature; the (religious) history tells us so, and we can almost predict with certainty that there will be wars in the future. Bush claims to be a christian, and he doesn't seem to have any problem with having been responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Many christians in the US supports Bush's illegal war - not understanding much of the pre-planning of this war before 9-11 occurred.

Most Americans are in the dark today, and they were in the dark yesterday. More are just realizing after five years that the Iraq war was a mistake; a little late after so much destruction and death.

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Quote:

Wars are part and parcel of human nature...

maybe, but nature evolves, right? we have bloody historical accounts, but recorded history doesn't go back half as far as human history. it's possible that we're a lot bloodier than our predecessors, and it's possible that we are a lot bloodier than we need to be- even if all the "blood" is spilled from airborne incendiaries, and we continue to eat meat. "nature" isn't a constant.

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Interesting thread on the proposed fate of the world's religions here:

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1315471#1315471

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so if some bloke writes a proposal to the united nations to end religion, that means something?

i take it about as seriously as if george lucas wrote to them, suggesting they make "jedi" the official world religion.

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tinygiraffe wrote:

so if some bloke writes a proposal to the united nations to end religion, that means something?

i take it about as seriously as if george lucas wrote to them, suggesting they make "jedi" the official world religion.

This all belongs in the other thread. but I am reminded of something a friend of mine told me back in 1967 about a group of folks in New York who spoke of 'worshipping the force' as if it were a form of religion. I was atheist/agnostic at the time and found the concept interesting but never pursued it.

The intervening popularity of the Star Wars series has made it impossible for me to find it in a search. I never did discover whether the force was believed to have had a personality or was merely a manifestation of the truth inherent in natural law.

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you bring the debate onto two fronts, i debate it on two fronts. if you're saying you'd rather talk about it over there, no problem, we can take it back over there.

frankly i think it's a ridiculous thread, because the context the item mentioned is in is displayed for everyone to see, but you talk as if you can't see right in front of you, how irrelevant it is. that's why i'm very surprised you even brought it up here.

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I'm pretty sure the fate of the world's religions would be a relevant issue, especially since their demise through UN effort is foretold in the book of Revelation. The formulism effort may have been anemic, but there is no denying the culpability of organized religion in frustrating the universal desire for peace and security.

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except that your post is no more relevant to "the fate of religion" than sesame street is relevant to the fate of road maps.

you treated it like it was something serious, and obviously expect us to also, but it's a complete farce- it's nothing. it could have been a comment from youtube and been just as important as your "news story." the u.n. isn't trying to ban religion, period- come back with meaningful evidence and get real.

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