Free Will

cicerone imposter wrote:

bellsybop: These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

When one is starving or without water, the freewill "to think, believe and love" doesn't mean much. Do you have any idea what many countries of this world's restrictions and constraints are - mandated and controlled by their governments?

yes but they have the free will to move, leave, speak out against, or be sheep and stay the course... that is not say however that are not consequences to those actions....

I have the free will to drive 100mph... the consequence of that is losing my license, insurance, or getting into an accident where the probability of death is high

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cicerone imposter wrote:

bellsybop: These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

When one is starving or without water, the freewill "to think, believe and love" doesn't mean much. Do you have any idea what many countries of this world's restrictions and constraints are - mandated and controlled by their governments?

Absolutely, but they still have the gift of freewill as mentioned in my post above, regardless of the lack of everything else. I have much empathy to these issues my friend, but I am thankful that they have at least that one gift that costs them nothing to have.

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neologist wrote:

bellsybop wrote:
I do not put any faith in what is written in the bible. I regard the OT as myth. The God of the OT, (imo) has been made to be a murderous, vengeful, jealous God. My God has no reason to be that God.
Nor is Jehovah the God you have errantly described.

However, the error is not yours but is the fault of 1000s of years of self serving and power hungry priests.

Oh I wish I knew I could've said that! I'll ditto that. :wink:

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cicerone imposter wrote:

bellsybop: These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

When one is starving or without water, the freewill "to think, believe and love" doesn't mean much. Do you have any idea what many countries of this world's restrictions and constraints are - mandated and controlled by their governments?

You are correct, CI. But you are missing one of the key points about free will.

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neologist wrote:

Free will without consequence?

Are you sure?

Yep, given sufficient time all is of no consequence. The heat-death of the universe is indicated.

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bellsybop wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
bellsybop: These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

When one is starving or without water, the freewill "to think, believe and love" doesn't mean much. Do you have any idea what many countries of this world's restrictions and constraints are - mandated and controlled by their governments?

Absolutely, but they still have the gift of freewill as mentioned in my post above, regardless of the lack of everything else. I have much empathy to these issues my friend, but I am thankful that they have at least that one gift that costs them nothing to have.

Free will without free action doesn't mean all that much. Think about a prisoner in for a life term at a very young age.

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I may prostitute my will but I'm not a cheap whore.

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Do you sell yourself freely?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

Who?

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real life wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

Who?

Guess; you get more than one. BTW, we're talking about free will in concert with free action.

How many in this world do you really think has "free will?" Do you? Explain how?

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neologist wrote:

Do you sell yourself freely?

No I'm a slave to Great Expectations (or even more humorously put Grave Expectations).

In any case the brevity of human mortality exempts me from the chains of free will (the heat-death of the universe not withstanding).

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Chumly: The brevity of human mortality exempts me from the chains of free will.

Love that line!

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I just got home from work, plopped into the bathtub and typed it in on the trusty laptop. I hope all is well with you and yours.

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Thanks; all is well at our homestead. Meeting with my siblings for brunch on Sunday (our quarterly), and off to China and Tibet on Wednesday.

You need to spend more time in the bathtub with your laptop; your creative juices seem to peak during those times. Just don't get electrocuted. Wink

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From the looks of Chumly's avatar, I think he has the juice under control.

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neologist wrote:

............I think he has the juice under control.

Me, a modern-day Moses?

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Shocking. Isn't it?

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I'd have to first see him split the water before I "believe."

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Just make sure your feet aren't wet.

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"juice" - "Jews" a play on words based on a homonym.
Moses - he would have had the Jews (juice) under control given that he was their leader.

Neo says: "I think he has the juice under control."
So I joke: "Me, a modern-day Moses?"

Then you guys have at it with the water / sparky jokes and the levy breaks with all manner of hilarity.

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