Free Will

bellsybop wrote:

I am not a traditional theist. I am more deist.
I believe that God does not interfere with our choices, but gave us freewill to make them without influence or interference, or even consequences for that matter.
And I agree with you about the mess of the world. We have the ability to change this but opt not to. God created enough of everything to feed, clothe, and house everyone. We choose greed and power over humankind. But this is human nature, unfortunately.

Free will without consequence?

Are you sure?

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Yes, I'm sure. This is my belief. I believe in God as an absolute. Others must tie a world of relativity into Gods' thinking which turns His promise into something other than a promise.. more of an agreement with strings attached. I see my God as one who makes a promise an keeps it.

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I might add that our consequences are here and now. Not by God's judgment.

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So, these 'here and now consequences': could they result in estrangement from God?

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Only in my own opinion, I will answer no. I don't believe there is such estrangement from God. For even those who don't believe, there is never estrangement from God. I believe that to be impossible, because God and man are one.

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So the one whose name translated from Hebrew means "he who causes to become" . . . Does he exist?

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I do not put any faith in what is written in the bible. I regard the OT as myth. The God of the OT, (imo) has been made to be a murderous, vengeful, jealous God. My God has no reason to be that God.

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bellsybop wrote:

I do not put any faith in what is written in the bible. I regard the OT as myth. The God of the OT, (imo) has been made to be a murderous, vengeful, jealous God. My God has no reason to be that God.

Excellent observation - IMHO.

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bellsybop,

So lets get this straight. We are God, right, and we have "freewill"?

So does this mean we are omnipotent and omnipresent ? Or if "we" aka "God" are not, then "freewill" must be limited....i.e. creativity is limited....so who created God/us ?

I merely take a devil's advocate position to illustrate the logical quagmire of such a discussion.

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bellsybop wrote:

I do not put any faith in what is written in the bible. I regard the OT as myth. The God of the OT, (imo) has been made to be a murderous, vengeful, jealous God. My God has no reason to be that God.

Nor is Jehovah the God you have errantly described.

However, the error is not yours but is the fault of 1000s of years of self serving and power hungry priests.

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fresco wrote:

bellsybop,

So lets get this straight. We are God, right, and we have "freewill"?

So does this mean we are omnipotent and omnipresent ? Or if "we" aka "God" are not, then "freewill" must be limited....i.e. creativity is limited....so who created God/us ?

I merely take a devil's advocate position to illustrate the logical quagmire of such a discussion.

I believe bbop amended her statement to include consequences, albeit without specificity.

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fresco wrote:

bellsybop,

So lets get this straight. We are God, right, and we have "freewill"?

So does this mean we are omnipotent and omnipresent ? Or if "we" aka God are not, then "freewill" must be limited....i.e. creativity is limited....so who created God/us ?

I merely take a devil's advocate position to illustrate the logical quagmire of such a discussion.

1. We are one with God. We are not separate from Him as religion teaches.
2. Yes, we have freewill.
I assume you understood me to say that we are God.. when I hope I said we are one with God.

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just to jump in Razz

I beleive we do have free will .. it is one of the gifts the goddess gave us .. but as to that we also face the consequences for such actions...

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13thCoven wrote:

just to jump in

I beleive we do have free will .. it is one of the gifts the goddess gave us .. but as to that we also face the consequences for such actions...

Face them now? Or afterlife?

I'm so happy to see you! Very Happy

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Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

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bellsybop wrote:

13thCoven wrote:
just to jump in

I beleive we do have free will .. it is one of the gifts the goddess gave us .. but as to that we also face the consequences for such actions...

Face them now? Or afterlife?

I'm so happy to see you!

well in my Beliefs... both... considering there isn't truly an afterlife Wink

when we pass on depending on the balance of our Karma we are either sent back to try again (by my own accounts Im prolly gonna keep going in a cycle forever :p) or we pass on to become part of the Energy of the spirit world itself Karma is simply a consequence for our actions.. they will follow you 3 fold throughout this life and the next

and Im glad to see you too !

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

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neologist wrote:

fresco wrote:
bellsybop,

So lets get this straight. We are God, right, and we have "freewill"?

So does this mean we are omnipotent and omnipresent ? Or if "we" aka "God" are not, then "freewill" must be limited....i.e. creativity is limited....so who created God/us ?

I merely take a devil's advocate position to illustrate the logical quagmire of such a discussion.
I believe bbop amended her statement to include consequences, albeit without specificity.

Our consequences are here and now.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Not many on this planet has "free will." Many lack food and medical care, very little or no political freedoms, and no way to earn income to improve one's lifestyle.

We can sit in our comfortable homes in the now-developed countries, but the majority still suffer from lack of food and water.

"Free Will," is restricted to very few humans on this planet.

Our free will has limits, to be sure, but as bbop has pointed out, we have many areas of freedom, to which I would add a certain degree of moral choice.

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bellsybop: These unfortunate still have freewill to think, believe, and love.

When one is starving or without water, the freewill "to think, believe and love" doesn't mean much. Do you have any idea what many countries of this world's restrictions and constraints are - mandated and controlled by their governments?

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