echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Sep, 2006 10:53 pm
kevnmoon wrote:
Knowledge and power are different stages of creation.. Lord knows everything also things that we desired... And He knows and writes or wrote. But His knowledge doesn't force us to do.. He only knows what we will do (Really admirable Absolute Knowledge ) .. Also Lord has a power to create wills which acts as free as birds.. Free will is a one kind of creation independent from God Will. Free will desire and than Absolute Will changes it to reality.


Okay, you can even leave "God" in there, if you must. But, really, I'm having an insanely difficult time deciphering your post. You think you could break it down for me, fella?
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Sep, 2006 11:46 am
Shocked OMG it's Echi!! Where you been hiding?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 09:11 pm
Hey, Miss Hep. Tell me about Free Will.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:39 pm
If some behaviors are genetically determined can we truly have free will?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 09:45 pm
We have obvious physical and mental limitations. Free will operates within these boundaries.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Sep, 2006 10:21 pm
neologist wrote:
We have obvious physical and mental limitations. Free will operates within these boundaries.


But if the free will is obstructed by genetics then it is not actually free and equal. One person's will can be persuaded in a different manner than another persons. So the will is dictated much by the human condition and the environment's effect on that predisposed selection.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:32 am
RexRed wrote:
neologist wrote:
We have obvious physical and mental limitations. Free will operates within these boundaries.


But if the free will is obstructed by genetics then it is not actually free and equal. One person's will can be persuaded in a different manner than another persons. So the will is dictated much by the human condition and the environment's effect on that predisposed selection.
The rebellion in Eden has presented us with an inherited predisposition to sin. That does not give us license to practice sin. (See Hebrews 10:24,25)
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 08:12 am
echi wrote:
Hey, Miss Hep. Tell me about Free Will.


Hehe I didn't even see you responded to me... Razz

Tell you about free will? Ok Very Happy

Free will = The power to choose


TA DA!
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 12:41 pm
Free will is merely an ideal.

As long as the will/mind can be possessed by external and internal conflicts it is not actually free.

Who is to say that the will can become so independent that it becomes free of all foreign or contrary opposing influence?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 12:47 pm
The will does not have the freedom or choice to not be tempted.

So is it really completely "free will"?

The will is bound by consciousness of sin...

The will is bound by the word.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 03:09 pm
It is the will that is tempted, yes. However the freedom is not. The freedom is the ability to say no to those things that tempt the will.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2006 01:16 pm
Posted elsewhere, but relevant:
neologist wrote:
We could not even begin to understand our existence were it not for the operation of cause and effect. But to say that the universe is totally deterministic presents us with a conundrum: What about free will? Does it really exist?

My answer revolves around the existence of God. So, now let me construct the entire house of cards for you to blow down:

Premise: There exists an all powerful God whose name means 'he who causes to become'.
Premise: At some time in the past, he willed himself to become a creator. Premise: The first of his creations was a mirror image also having free will.
Premise: This first creation was given the power to continue creating.

From this I deduce that all things, including more intelligent creatures have been created. And, as a corollary, the intelligent creatures so created have also a measure of free will within their own dominions. As humans we have free will within the constraints of the physical laws of earth.

I realize that simply proclaiming that God willed himself to become a creator raises many questions, not the least of which is 'what did he do in the time before that?' However, we can't afford to stumble over those issues so long as we are unable to articulate the exact nature of space (Just how many dimensions are there, and how do they interrelate?) and time (Is it truly linear?)

The only way we can prove or disprove is not by direct attack on the premises, but by examining the consequences of the argument. I suggest this, though difficult, is possible even for those of us having less than complete intelligence skills.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2006 11:19 am
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_showmegod.html

Here is an interesting article

Smoot just won the noble prize a few days ago...

It seems concerning science, physics and cosmology, creationism is in, atheism and pantheism are out...
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2006 01:12 pm
Interesting link, Rex. Did you notice the trinitarian slant?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 10:26 am
neologist wrote:
Interesting link, Rex. Did you notice the trinitarian slant?


Actually I didn't.

It is hard for people once they have gotten into the mind set of the trinity to not be seeing "threes" in everything.

The trinity only intellectually belittles a creative God and forces him down to the level of his creation.

Could you quote the section you saw the trinity in?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2006 05:04 pm
RexRed wrote:
neologist wrote:
Interesting link, Rex. Did you notice the trinitarian slant?


Actually I didn't.

It is hard for people once they have gotten into the mind set of the trinity to not be seeing "threes" in everything.

The trinity only intellectually belittles a creative God and forces him down to the level of his creation.

Could you quote the section you saw the trinity in?
"But what about this Biblical idea of God becoming man? What about the concept of sacrifice? Aren't these primitive concepts?
"If the Creator of the universe wanted to communicate to us (moderns and ancients both) what He is like, how could He show us more clearly than by becoming one of us? If He wanted to communicate to us the seriousness of breaking His moral law, how could he show us more forcefully than by demanding that the most valuable thing in the universe be forfeited as a penalty? And if he wanted to tell us how much He loves us, how could He do so more dramatically than by dying for us?"

They then proceed to misapply Isaiah 53:5-6, applying it to Jesus' father.

"But He was pierced for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
and by His wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
but the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:56 am
Thanks for pointing that out Neo...

I realize I unconsciously skipped over that part...

I have a way of selectively reading what I like and not what is there.

I found the first part of the article substantial but once the physicist turns theist I lose all attention. Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:21 pm
Theists are simply wrong about most of the scriptures and physicists quote theists as if what the theists say are "gospel". As if the theists is the high priest of the physicist.

Theists interject their traditions and dogma into the scriptures long before they actually read what is written.

If a physicist would simply read (and study) the Bible for themselves and take the same care in understanding it as they do with science then the Bible would come to light in this generation much sooner rather than later.

Yet when the physicist reads the Bible they feel disconnected from their science. The theists has caused this rift through the erroneous absurdity of their self made and contradictory faith...

Thus the physicist disconnects the Bible from creation and science out of the fear placed there by the doctrinal corruption created by the theist.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:25 pm
The creation of straw men, whether or not by intention, is responsible for many obfuscations.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:38 pm
Here is an example:

The Bible says (in so many words) that the earth is flat...

The theists will still argue today twisting reality and warping space and time to convince you that the earth is really flat.

Yet the scientist would (after much study) make note that the earth spoken of here would be the spiritual earth with heaven above and hell below not the physical earth.

A scientist would draw out a matrix and start plotting spiritual world versus physical world...

The theists just continues to confuses the terms in a hodgepodge of personal interpretation and wild speculation. Then the theist blasts these speculations for all the world to ingest, regurgitate and become nauseous over.
0 Replies
 
 

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