Resurrecting this thread out of rudeness and obstinacy, a product of my own free will and inclination.
neologist wrote:Resurrecting this thread out of rudeness and obstinacy, a product of my own free will and inclination.
Or perhaps all the events in the universe, in a chain of causality, resulted in just the right conditions to determine your actions here today.
Nah, he was just inclined to do so.
I was so inclined in order to stir you up, Doc.
God... Still debating free-will? I thought we settled this long ago. What the heck happened?
How much does 'the will' cost?
Intrepid wrote:Nah, he was just inclined to do so.
His inclination was determined by a causal chain of events.
echi wrote:God... Still debating free-will? I thought we settled this long ago. What the heck happened?
Good to see you back, echi. Are you here by your own accord or out of some necessity?
Both! I think free will and determinism are concepts that, somehow, coexist... maybe even support each other as a kind of duality. And, no, I can't say that it isn't really free will, because then I'd have to throw out all ideas relating to the concept of freedom.
What I say, instead, is that I don't really know what anything is or what anything means. Words represent concepts, and concepts are blurry. Even the ones that appear to be absolute... they are not. I guess it all comes down to the observer. I don't know for sure what I am, or even if I am. I can just make assumptions based on what I think I know.
So, to me, it seems most reasonable to conclude that the cosmos, on every level, is deterministic, and that we also have the experience of free will.
echi wrote:Both! I think free will and determinism are concepts that, somehow, coexist... maybe even support each other as a kind of duality. ........So, to me, it seems most reasonable to conclude that the cosmos, on every level, is deterministic, and that we also have the experience of free will.
Wisdom... Good thoughts...
Knowledge and power are different stages of creation.. Lord knows everything also things that we desired... And He knows and writes or wrote. But His knowledge doesn't force us to do.. He only knows what we will do (Really admirable Absolute Knowledge ) .. Also Lord has a power to create wills which acts as free as birds.. Free will is a one kind of creation independent from God Will. Free will desire and than Absolute Will changes it to reality.
And Free will doesn't show that we are GOD.
Free will is free will.. Free will has no power so need to Absolute Power.
He says ''be'' and everything becomes... Lord's Will act as a Power,...
kevnmoon--
I'm interested in what you're saying. I think I understand some of it. To be honest, I have trouble with the parts about "God" and the "Lord's Will", and stuff like that. I'm sure it makes sense to you, and I know this is the R&S forum, but do you think it's possible to explain this stuff in such a way that avoids religious terminology. I recognize that it's my problem, not your's, but just for the sake of communication... I don't know. What do you say? (Is it too much to ask?)
Will Durant wrote:Determinism is predestinarianism without theology.
I suppose he would assert free will to be the same in either case.
neologist wrote:Will Durant wrote:Determinism is predestinarianism without theology.
I suppose he would assert free will to be the same in either case.
I don't get it. What's the implication?
echi wrote:neologist wrote:Will Durant wrote:Determinism is predestinarianism without theology.
I suppose he would assert free will to be the same in either case.
I don't get it. What's the implication?
You asked for a discussion of free will without theology. I took it as a license for anything goes.
Pardon my dense-ness. (I still don't get it, though... don't worry about it.)
I don't think you do. I mean, is it possible to make your case without using words like "God"?
echi wrote:I don't think you do. I mean, is it possible to make your case without using words like "God"?
Of course not. That would require a sound internally congruent philosophy to be behind his theological curtain. I can't see that being the case.
It's an empty box.
