How do you know this, LW?
That's all I was able to find in Google in the past -- an abridged summation of the article in The Age. Perhaps I missed a full presentation -- it just showed up in Google news as new.
gustavratzenhofer wrote:What about the grizzly bear, msolga?
Express emotion? The grizzly bear? Is that what you're asking, Gus?
Lightwizard wrote:Let's just say in regards to Ennis' "violence," that men together in relationship can be a physical confrontation of egos. While hopefully a straight man is less likely to get physically overbearing with a wife, the rules change when it is two men in a relationship.
But, in the film, his violence wasn't directed at Jack. Rather, often at strangers who'd offended or outraged him, like those two who were talking obscenely in front of his daughters.
Gay grizzly bears? Would that be "Bearback Mountain?"
Nope, there were two violent scenes between Jack and Ennis. Ennis slugs Jack in one, the other was the rough housing that got a little too rough and relinquished the two bloody shirts at the end of the film. Even the first sexual encounter was just barely on the edge of a rape.
(Except that obviously Jack approved!
)
Ya'll have a lot to learn about gay sex. It's extremely physical and not too sure many women would enjoy being subjected to the same.
Lightwizard wrote:Nope, there were two violent scenes between Jack and Ennis. Ennis slugs Jack in one, the other was the rough housing that got a little too rough and relinquished the two bloody shirts at the end of the film. Even the first sexual encounter was just barely on the edge of a rape.
Yes, but his most over-the-top violent acts seemed to be directed at folk who were virtually strangers. The stuff with Jack was less brutal.
The motivation for his striking out against the bikers using the foul language and the purpose of that scene in the movie has been explored in several of the cut-and-past and links on the film. There's only one actual sex scene in the film that last maybe a minute or less. One has to imagine what their many sexual encounters were like, if one even cares to. Of course, gay men are going to be more adept at that!
No doubt! But that wasn't what I was initially referring to when I mentioned his violence.
I brought it up because reviewers both praising the film and not-so-happy with the film has brought up the violent nature of the sex. I note that the naysayers are overstating it and the reviews lauding the film are expressing an understanding of the nature of a male to male relationship. It ends up being a curious response by the naysayers and they can't help themselves seeming like voyeurs with an embarrassing fetish.
Can I jump in here and give my take on this film.I have purposley not started reading from the begining of the thread because-
1. I didn't want be "influenced" by previouse reports befor posting.
2. Maybe,my take on this film,way into this discussion,can refresh or invigorate future posts.
In turns,this film is disturbing,heart-aching,emotionally draining,thought provoking and downright brutal.
Ang Lee uses a BRILLIANT cast,a cracking music score ( stay while the credits roll just to listen to Willie Nelson sing "He was a friend of mine".Have a tissue ready! after what you've just seen)and great cinematography to give us a wonderful story of love forbidden,love stolen and love lost.
I saw this film for the second time,today.It's strange,but it's impact grows bigger after you leave the cinema.
Beautifully played and wonderfully told,this is a story that will stay with you long after seeing the film.An old plaid shirt and jean-jacket will never be seen in the same light again.
By brutal, I hope you mean brutally honest. I didn't find the characters brutal, not even Ennis towards Jack whose human frailties drove him into liasons with other men.
That old plaid shirt and jean-jacket will be as iconic as the Star Child in "2001," and, in a way, the meaning is similar.
Lightwizard wrote:By brutal, I hope you mean brutally honest. I didn't find the characters brutal, not even Ennis towards Jack whose human frailties drove him into liasons with other men.
That old plaid shirt and jean-jacket will be as iconic as the Star Child in "2001," and, in a way, the meaning is similar.
"Brutal" as in the phone conversation between Jack's wife and Ennis,where she was telling him how he died,and we were watching how he "really" died.Or were you rummaging around in your popcorn at that time.
Yes, Jack's wife had become brittle (that hair, those teeth...yikes!) but I don't know about brutal. Ennis had already received the returned postcard marked "deceased." I can't entirely agree that Ennis' vision of what was happening was the truth. A killing like that in the 80's would have been news and it would have been foolish to try and hide it. I think we were seeing a flashback to the killing he had seen as a child manisfesting itself into what he thought of as Jack's ultimate fate, and, in truth, what he believed could be his own.
Now, that is not to say that there won't be many intepretations of this film which is the way Ang Lee designed it.
LW, I agree with your interpretation of the scene where Jack is beaten. I think Ennis is imagining what might have happened (his worst fears) behind the story that Lureen is telling him.
Thanks for continuing to post reviews and articles about the film. I still need to read the Annie Proulx piece.
It was online at the New Yorker but was taken off as a subscriber only archive. Actually, if I can find it, it was posted in full on the forum at RottenTomatoes.com.
I guess that's six of us that concur with that part of the story as four of my friends independantly came to the same conclusion.
Very funny while being enlightening:
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MALE CALL
Tips for getting over 'Brokeback' hump
Peter Hartlaub, Chronicle Pop Culture Critic
Sunday, February 5, 2006
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You're a progressive Bay Area guy. You support same-sex marriage, you invite your gay co-workers to parties and you think that English dude who played Magneto in "X-Men" is a hell of a good actor. Hey, you might even own a Morrissey album or two.
So why haven't you seen "Brokeback Mountain" yet? The "Brokeback Mountain" phenomenon has become as unavoidable as a military recruiter at a continuation school. You can't turn on the television without seeing a gay cowboy, every theater seems to be playing the picture and each day seems to bring a new shopping cart full of awards for the movie -- including eight Oscar nominations this week. It's hard to find a straight man who has seen the movie and regrets it.
And yet if you listen to talk radio, the guys at the office or the typical men's league softball team, there's one key demographic -- straight men ages 18 to 54 -- who can't seem to get over their insecurities and take those last few steps to see this landmark film.
It's a strange phobia, considering that "Brokeback Mountain" may be the best date movie to come along in years. You have the potential to look so sensitive that you can probably get her to pay for the movie and a trip to Red Lobster. Add a few tears near the ending (just think about that scene in "Rudy" where underdog Rudy leads the Notre Dame Irish on the field), and you might be surprised where the evening takes you. Think make-up sex is great? Try some you-just-took-me-to-"Brokeback Mountain" sex.
What makes fear of "Brokeback" even more odd are the misconceptions that have developed among those who haven't seen the film. On top of being the favorite movie of the year of many critics, Ang Lee's film has mistakenly received a reputation as some kind of nonstop guy-on-guy sex romp.
In fact, there is more man-on-woman sex in "Brokeback Mountain," including not-one-but-two hot female celebrities appearing topless. At an oppressive time in cinema when you're lucky to see one naked celebrity's breasts in a movie (Katie Holmes in "The Gift" and Amy Smart in "Road Trip" are two spectacular recent examples), "Brokeback Mountain" provides you with Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway.
The movie also has National Lampoon's "Vacation" scene-stealer Randy Quaid. What straight guy doesn't love Randy Quaid? And there are almost enough fights in the movie to merit comparisons to "Road House." (To be honest, the feather-mulleted glistening-with-sweat Patrick Swayze looked a lot more effeminate in that film than "Brokeback Mountain" protagonists Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist -- whether you're straight or gay, both characters seem like pretty cool guys to grab a beer and watch a Sharks game with.)
I've been surprised by "Brokeback" phobia, which I've heard from straight male friends, relatives, this nation's president, guys in my pickup basketball game and even two dudes sitting behind me during a screening of "BloodRayne" -- a movie approximately 350 times harder to watch than "Brokeback Mountain." I recently heard a prominent local meteorologist sharing "Brokeback" hesitation with members of the "KNBR Morning Show," who have since committed themselves on air to see the movie together.
I don't think any of these people are homophobic -- I just think there's some kind of weird latent childhood peer-pressure thing going on with this movie. It's almost as if you're under a spell, reinforced by years of conflicting televised gay stereotypes and manly cowboy imagery.
The fact that "Brokeback Mountain" may be the best movie you'll see all year should be reason enough to go. But for those who need an extra push, the world (George Bush included) is sorely in need of the "Brokeback Mountain" Survival Guide for Heterosexual Men.
Brought to you by the same people who created the Ultimate Fighting Championships Primer for Gay Men and the ABCs of "The Lord of the Rings" for Hot Chicks, we've developed a step-by-step program to guarantee that even the most shallow man can enjoy the event movie of the season.
Think of "Brokeback Mountain" as a challenge -- like lowering your golf handicap, or getting a phone number from a stripper. Just five easy steps toward a more civilized future:
Step 1: Accept your shortcomings. Considering that most of us were brought up in an era of intolerance, fear-mongering and David Lee Roth videos, it's miraculous that guys aren't even more screwed up in the head. Your skittishness over this movie has a lot to do with the degree to which society has failed you. But there is still some good in your heart.
Step 2: There's safety in numbers. Think of it this way -- if you go to the movie with all your friends, co-workers and the guys from the barbershop, then you won't have to stress about an acquaintance seeing you in the ticket line. Just as packs of women went to see "The Vagina Monologues" and packs of Christian conservatives went to see "The Passion of the Christ," the best way for straight men to see this movie is by the busload.
Step 3: Don't sit next to each other. If you went to "Brokeback" skittish in the first place, and if you're starting to feel aware of how much your friend looks like Jake Gyllenhaal, the seating arrangement may be crucial. Sit in every other seat -- or every three seats if the theater is big enough. If you've followed Step 2, you and your friends should have created sort of a checkerboard effect in the theater, with no two men able to touch each other without getting out of their seats.
Step 4: Follow the tent rule. "Brokeback Mountain" is top-quality filmmaking, and you should enjoy it in its entirety. But if you start to feel panicky -- as if you might hop to another theater and watch "Glory Road" -- simply follow the Heath Ledger Tent Rule. Every time Ledger's character, Ennis, crawls into a tent, take a trip to the restroom or refreshment stand, and make sure you're gone for at least three minutes. If you do that, then "Brokeback Mountain" is pretty much like watching an episode of "Will & Grace."
Step 5: Watch gay porn. OK, stay with me on this one. How do great athletes such as Jerry Rice and Oscar de la Hoya make themselves stronger for game day? They train on hills at high altitudes, so a level playing field seems like nothing by comparison. Doesn't it follow that if you're planning to see "Brokeback Mountain" on a Saturday, you should watch some hardcore guy-on-guy porn the night before? Perhaps something in the Western gay porn genre ("Heatstroke" is a nice place to start).
Above all, when you're done, don't be afraid to discuss the film with friends and colleagues. Seeing the movie and coming to terms with the fact that you enjoyed it doesn't do anybody any good if you go back to the gym and start acting like a scared goof again.
All this time you thought you were part of the problem. Who knew that seeing a movie about two gay men could make you feel like an even bigger man?
