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Using "shall".

 
 
M56
 
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 09:33 am
Using "shall".

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Do you use these, or similar, in your variant of English?

1) I shall be back soon, so don't worry.

2) Shall I get some drinks in?

3) You shall do exactly as I say!

4) What shall we have for supper tonight? Any ideas?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 744 • Replies: 14
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:23 am
They are all correct. At least in the US.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:06 am
Correct, but not coloquial.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 12:23 pm
I thought shall was only used for "I" or "we"

????????
0 Replies
 
M56
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:10 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Correct, but not coloquial.


In the US.
0 Replies
 
M56
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:11 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
I thought shall was only used for "I" or "we"

????????


No, that's a nonsense created by traditionalist grammarians.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:13 pm
sooooo.....why is it nonsense?

It's that way in Latin, and Spanish.
0 Replies
 
flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:22 pm
Shall and will are reversed from the normal usage when determination or emphasis is intended; hence the "you shall" in example three, also the famous expression, "They shall not pass!".
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M56
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:23 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
sooooo.....why is it nonsense?

It's that way in Latin, and Spanish.


Does Spanish and Latin do this?

The initial capital of the partnership shall be shared by all parties in this agreement.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 01:33 pm
huh?
0 Replies
 
flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 02:17 pm
Another well known reversal of "shall" and "will" is the "thou shalt not"s of the 10 commandments
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chichan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 11:39 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
I thought shall was only used for "I" or "we"

sooooo.....why is it nonsense?


It's nonsense, CT, because that simply isn't how English works. In the 17th and 18th centuries prescriptive grammarians strove to outdo one another to see who could create the most ludicrous rules for English.

There were some real dillies; the split infinitive; don't start a sentence with and/but/because; don't end a sentence with a preposition; don't use 'which' for restrictive clauses; he/his/him as a gender neutral pronoun; ...

They deemed rules correct based on what they thought language should be, not what language actually is. of course, such a position is ludicrous. The only way to see how language is used is to, what else, study how language is used.

A quick exact phrase google clearly illustrates just how big a lie that old canard is.

Results 1 - 10 of about 5,620,000 English pages for "he shall".

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,780,000 English pages for "she shall"

Results 1 - 10 of about 8,030,000 English pages for "they shall".

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,740,000 English pages for "you shall".

Results 1 - 10 of about 15,200,000 English pages for "it shall".

Results 1 - 10 of about 17,100,000 English pages for "I shall".

Results 1 - 10 of about 22,800,000 English pages for "we shall".
0 Replies
 
Harris Zellig
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:05 am
Chai Tea wrote:
I thought shall was only used for "I" or "we"


Remember "We shall overcome" ?

Maybe not, but it is now part of US history.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:10 am
M56 wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:
sooooo.....why is it nonsense?

It's that way in Latin, and Spanish.


Does Spanish and Latin do this?

The initial capital of the partnership shall be shared by all parties in this agreement.


Yes they does.
0 Replies
 
Harris Zellig
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2006 12:12 am
The (King James English) Bible has a number of 2nd person shall (s) and shall not(s), used especially for commands, as in The Ten Commandments:

E.g., "Thou (you) shalt (shall)..."
"Thou (you) shalt not (shall not)..." etc.

This imperative aspect of "shall" is what gave power to Churchill's declaration "We shall never surrender!"
0 Replies
 
 

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