Condi Rice Goes to Europe!

Ecz@ktlz

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blatham wrote:

Oralloy isn't getting anywhere near a serious address to the issues and principles because that isn't the game he's playing. He bounces along like a skipped stone because he's just baiting. He's possibly having fun, but presently, he's not quite worth debating.

Indeed. And therefore best ignored. He's made his point (over and over and over). Like a kid screaming for attention, and the adults keep ignoring him...

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D'artagnan wrote:

He's made his point (over and over and over). Like a kid screaming for attention, and the adults keep ignoring him...

That is a rather dishonest characterization, given that I was responding politely to people who were talking politely to me.

It was a rather childish characterization as well, which makes your claim that I was childish a bit hypocritical.

Rolling Eyes

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blatham wrote:

Oralloy isn't getting anywhere near a serious address to the issues and principles because that isn't the game he's playing. He bounces along like a skipped stone because he's just baiting. He's possibly having fun, but presently, he's not quite worth debating.

How about, none of the above?

I suppose I am having fun in the sense that online discussion is a form of entertainment, and A2K tends to have a higher level of discourse (the recent post from D'artagnan being a notable exception).

My statement of my opinion was neither a game nor baiting. It was a statement of my opinion. And it is not likely to be too far out of the mainstream here.

I am not sure what "bounces along like a skipped stone" exactly means as a metaphor, so I can't comment on that.

As for worth of discussion, I am not sure how much there is to discuss about the fact of what my opinions are, so the discussion possibilities are probably limited there. I suppose there could be some sort of discussion over whether I am correct or not in my belief that my views are in the mainstream. But unless someone commissions a Gallup poll on whether people approve of torturing high-level al-Qa'ida figures, that too may go nowhere.

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oralloy said

Quote:

Well, I certainly didn't call anyone "sub" human.
What I mean is that anyone who joins the organization known as al-Qa'ida automatically forfeits any rights they have as a human being by doing so, in my opinion.
What I mean is, let's torture senior members of al-Qa'ida for information, then torture them for fun, then kill them and leave their bodies in a ditch somewhere.

So, why not behead them too? What would the 'fun' torture be? I mean, what is it you imagine doing to these people? Do you do it for the gratification which comes from being vengeful? Do you do it to prevent further such acts through demonstration of severity in punishment? As al quaida and other folks will have similar detestation (sincerely experienced) for perhaps even you, is it OK for them to have the same values?

Could you flesh out your opinions and give honest careful answers to those questions?

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Why is this public information anyway?
Doesnt the left care that there might be a serious leak in the CIA?

Remember,it was the left that raised hell about the leak of Valerie Plames name,and it seems to me that this leak,if true,is much more dangerous then her name.
Why doesnt the left care about that?

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mysteryman wrote:

Why is this public information anyway?
Doesnt the left care that there might be a serious leak in the CIA?

Remember,it was the left that raised hell about the leak of Valerie Plames name,and it seems to me that this leak,if true,is much more dangerous then her name.
Why doesnt the left care about that?

It was the CIA that raised holy heck about the leak of Plame's name. But hey, what's a little revisionist history between friends?

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parados wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
Why is this public information anyway?
Doesnt the left care that there might be a serious leak in the CIA?

Remember,it was the left that raised hell about the leak of Valerie Plames name,and it seems to me that this leak,if true,is much more dangerous then her name.
Why doesnt the left care about that?

It was the CIA that raised holy heck about the leak of Plame's name. But hey, what's a little revisionist history between friends?

And there have been myriad threads about how bad the leak was,how wrong and dangerous it was,etc.
BUT,nobody on the left seems to be bothered at all by this leak.
Why is that?

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blatham wrote:

Quote:
I reject the proposition that members of al-Qa'ida have human rights.

That said, I see no reason why we have to offend European sensibilities by conducting torture on their soil. We can torture just as well elsewhere.

Let's go right to beheading them.

There's a problem here. Talking requires brain tongue facial muscles vocal chords....

and there rest of a body.

Otherwise logical Blatham.

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stop. you had me at brain.

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Oh no...not another idiotic "Will the left denounce xxxxx" derailing?

Don't let him do it, folks!

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dlowan wrote:

Oh no...not another idiotic "Will the left denounce xxxxx" derailing?

Don't let him do it, folks!

Thats not what I said,and you know it.

I just find it interesting that one leak is k,but another leak is bad,in your eyes.
I am trying to understand the massive hypocrisy on your part.

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Notice Condi has a better hairdo. Do you think the new do was a birthday present or is the looser, less prim look a sign that she is running for president?

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I'd love to see he her run. It would be the most entertaining campaign in a long, long time....

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apparently she lies well, she may be presidential material.

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I'd love to see what the hard-right, "family values" crowd makes of her, considering how they felt about Harriet Myers.

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blatham wrote:

So, why not behead them too?

I've nothing against eventually beheading senior members of al-Qa'ida, but only after they suffer a very long and painful ordeal.

Actually, I mentioned drawing and quartering, and that involves beheading at the end (though the guy is dead by that point).

blatham wrote:

What would the 'fun' torture be? I mean, what is it you imagine doing to these people?

I like the CIA's "cold room/cold water" thing.

More than once I've drifted to sleep in a warm bed while enjoying the pleasant thought that at that very moment Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was somewhere undergoing sleep deprivation in a very cold room.

blatham wrote:

Do you do it for the gratification which comes from being vengeful?

Yep. That is 100% why I feel that way.

blatham wrote:

As al quaida and other folks will have similar detestation (sincerely experienced) for perhaps even you, is it OK for them to have the same values?

I do realize that if they had their way, I'd have to choose between "conversion to their twisted version of Islam" or "death".

I don't know that "OK" or "not OK" really applies. They feel that way about me and I feel that way about them, and that's just the way it is.

blatham wrote:

Could you flesh out your opinions and give honest careful answers to those questions?

I always try to give an honest answer about my views.

However, I don't know how much I can really expand on my view that "they've really pissed me off and now I want them to suffer and die".

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parados wrote:

It was the CIA that raised holy heck about the leak of Plame's name.

Can't say I really blame them for being upset.

At the least, all the contacts that were sending information through Plame have gone to ground and stopped sending us information. Some of them may have been killed.

People who had innocent "non-spy" contacts with Plame may have been killed as suspected spies.

Then there was the exposure of the CIA front company. How many other agents were exposed because they used that company as part of their cover?

Then there was the fact that she was the spouse of an ambassador. Does the CIA routinely use ambassadorial spouses as agents because no one suspects them? Well, they'll all be suspected now, whether they are an agent or not.

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oralloy wrote:

blatham wrote:
So, why not behead them too?

I've nothing against eventually beheading senior members of al-Qa'ida, but only after they suffer a very long and painful ordeal.

Actually, I mentioned drawing and quartering, and that involves beheading at the end (though the guy is dead by that point).

blatham wrote:
What would the 'fun' torture be? I mean, what is it you imagine doing to these people?

I like the CIA's "cold room/cold water" thing.

More than once I've drifted to sleep in a warm bed while enjoying the pleasant thought that at that very moment Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was somewhere undergoing sleep deprivation in a very cold room.

blatham wrote:
Do you do it for the gratification which comes from being vengeful?

Yep. That is 100% why I feel that way.

blatham wrote:
As al quaida and other folks will have similar detestation (sincerely experienced) for perhaps even you, is it OK for them to have the same values?

I do realize that if they had their way, I'd have to choose between "conversion to their twisted version of Islam" or "death".

I don't know that "OK" or "not OK" really applies. They feel that way about me and I feel that way about them, and that's just the way it is.

blatham wrote:
Could you flesh out your opinions and give honest careful answers to those questions?

I always try to give an honest answer about my views.

However, I don't know how much I can really expand on my view that "they've really pissed me off and now I want them to suffer and die".

Cosistency is often held up as an intellectual virtue and you surely are consistently shallow. Your celebratory self-pride is noted.

Shall we just leave it there or do you wish to draw law and international codes (or national codes, for all that) under your consistent personally-gratified umbrella? Address or ignore, as might be your want, the trust you demonstrate in the CIA (or, of course, the private contractor working for the CIA) to establish who among the questionably-complexioned folk they roust up are clearly deserving the fun torture even without the benefit of any legal proceding.

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Another happy example of the fun uses of torture and incarceration without trial...

Quote:

An Ethiopian claims that his confession to al-Qaeda bomb plot was signed after beatings, reports David Rose in New York

Sunday December 11, 2005
The Observer

An Ethiopian student who lived in London claims that he was brutally tortured with the involvement of British and US intelligence agencies.
Binyam Mohammed, 27, says he spent nearly three years in the CIA's network of 'black sites'. In Morocco he claims he underwent the strappado torture of being hung for hours from his wrists, and scalpel cuts to his chest and penis and that a CIA officer was a regular interrogator.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1664612,00.html

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Condi Rice Goes to Europe!

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