fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 04:59 am
@spendius,
Because it trancends traditional concepts of "belief" and "knowledge" by taking Wittgenstein's position that "meaning is use". This is a consequential result of acknowledging the infinite regress of words defining words. Understanding of the position comes from an appreciation of Wittgenstein's own rejection of his Tractatus and its attempted isomorphism to a "physical world".
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 06:41 am
@Chumly,
Heh Heh
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 06:44 am
@JLNobody,
That we perceive time and causality as linear does not make them so.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 07:05 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

That we perceive time and causality as linear does not make them so.

Even if time takes a fractal pattern, the relationship between one point and another is still linear.

Simply saying that time and causality DON'T have a linear model is not saying anything. Don't assume you know or perceive something about time that others don't.

From a philosophical point of view, time may only have a value at all because it is perceived, so downplaying our perception of time, is perhaps also factually false.

T
K
O
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 07:37 am
@neologist,
Quote:
That we perceive time and causality as linear does not make them so.


These concepts aren't neccesarily valid outside perception. They apply to human experience, not existence in general.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 03:58 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Because it trancends traditional concepts of "belief" and "knowledge" by taking Wittgenstein's position that "meaning is use". This is a consequential result of acknowledging the infinite regress of words defining words. Understanding of the position comes from an appreciation of Wittgenstein's own rejection of his Tractatus and its attempted isomorphism to a "physical world".


Thanks fresco for having enough confidence in me to think I understand that.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:03 pm
@Diest TKO,
Didn't say it is NOT linear. Just that it is presumptuous to aver it is.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:21 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Because it trancends traditional concepts of "belief" and "knowledge" by taking Wittgenstein's position that "meaning is use". This is a consequential result of acknowledging the infinite regress of words defining words. Understanding of the position comes from an appreciation of Wittgenstein's own rejection of his Tractatus and its attempted isomorphism to a "physical world".


I have to presume from that that Wittgenstein's brilliant conclusion, logically derived from his having acknowledged the infinite regress of words defining words, implies that he hadn't read Chapters XXXVI, XXXVII, XXXVII etc of Tristram Shandy or that if he had he had failed to grasp the full import of the meaning contained therein and in the subsequent pages concerning the outcome of widow Wadman's concupiscabilities.


fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:28 pm
@spendius,
Blackadder rides again !
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 10:54 am
Hi Fresco,
I do hope you never construe my posts to mean that I am not interested in what you have to say, on the contrary. I'm interested and willing to accept that I have lots to learn, in fact the main reason I hang with A2K is so I might expand my knowledge base.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 11:34 am
@Chumly,
No, I don't think that. I think that all of us have vested interests in maintaining certain "self-concepts" (otherwise what have we been doing all these years ).In your case that might involve what you have invested in the idea of teaching "scientific facts". Then along comes a "trouble-maker" like me who is keen to point out, say, that the word "fact" actually implies "construction" (from facere Latin -to make)...and why would I do that ?...to try to justify my attempts to make sense of the problems encountered at the frontiers of physics and elsewhere. I do not offer a"belief system" or a "solution", there may be none. I merely seek companionship in the search for a "vantage point" and I believe I have encountered what may be some promising routes. But travelling companions might need to leave some of their mental home comforts behind.

As an aside, I remember. many years ago, having to teach "non-prescriptive grammar" (Chomsky) to a new class of mature MA students, most of whom had been teachers of "traditional grammar". I can remember the look on some of their faces when I pointed out that "We was going" is "grammatical" according to Chomsky if it used consistently within an idiolect. All those years of beating "correct English" into the kids ! A couple didn't stay the course after that !
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 02:07 pm
@fresco,
Troublemaker,
Chumly gave you an excellent opportunity to express a very effective summation of your general perspective.
Companion
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 03:16 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I have to presume from that that Wittgenstein's brilliant conclusion, logically derived from his having acknowledged the infinite regress of words defining words, implies that he hadn't read Chapters XXXVI, XXXVII, XXXVII etc of Tristram Shandy or that if he had he had failed to grasp the full import of the meaning contained therein and in the subsequent pages concerning the outcome of widow Wadman's concupiscabilities.


That was sloppy of me I'm afraid.

I refer to Volume VI. Chapters XXXVI, XXXVII, XXXVIII et seq. of the book which concerns Uncle Toby's courtship of the widow Wadman.

I feel confident Chum that those passages will broaden your knowledge base. Uncle Toby is in the same position as was the guy who married Ava Gardner in The Barefoot Contessa.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 04:39 pm
@JLNobody,
Per sententia ad alta !
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 06:07 pm
@fresco,
It is a bit of a mistake to think high IQs are an exclusive feature of modern university education.

A very grave mistake actually. Bordering on a debilitating one.
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 03:01 am
@spendius,
Quote:
a mistake to think high IQs are an exclusive feature of modern university education


rat cunning

is this the spoonerism page
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 09:48 am
@spendius,
Well, I would say that about intelligence, but IQ, as determined by a test, does require some schooling, at least to have some familiarity with the various concepts in such a test.
The counter argument will no doubt be that there are people without any significant schooling who can ace such IQ tests, but then they have to be self taught.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 11:47 am
@Cyracuz,
That's fair enough Cyr if you use intelligence and schooling as synonyms and assume that the tests are the only measure when they might not be a measure of intelligence at all.

The whole of ancient and pre-historical art is there to refute such arguments as is also any high class sport.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 12:10 pm
@spendius,
Do not equate IQ with intelligence. Intelligence is a term that refers to a person's potential. IQ is merely a number that determines your usefulness.

You can be the most analphabetical bastard in the whole world and yet be very intelligent. It is also possible to possess oceans of knowledge and education and not be very intelligent at all.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 12:13 pm
@Cyracuz,
I don't equate IQ with intelligence. I equate it with a need for reassurance.
0 Replies
 
 

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