New US textbook aims to teach Bible as knowledge

It will never be appropriate in a public school, no matter who pays for it.

New US textbook aims to teach Bible as knowledge


It's an interesting way to keep the camel's nose in the tent. And maybe it'll just stay that way, but I bet the first chance it has, that camel is going to push its way in. And then it's gonna be hell to get back out.

Maybe one day when the Bible God has taken its place in history along side of the Greek Gods, this type of education will be safe for children at a young age, but for now it's more like showing porn to teenagers and selling it as sex education; a recipe for trouble.

Rosborne979,

You would equate the Bible with pornography?

To Edgar, Au, and Setanta:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

According to this definition (from Merriam-Webster), atheism might also qualify as a religion. (See definition 2 and 4.) Atheism is a system of beliefs, which some hold fairly ardently :wink: . It is a worldview, a principle, a cause, and certainly a personal set/institutionalized system of religious attitudes. Atheism is the foundation for our present secular society, and therefore it is the foundation for what is taught in public schools.

So I ask you... is it really possible to completely eliminate religion from the public sector? According to the definition of religion, everyone has a religion. Some system of beliefs include faith in a deity, while other systems of belief center around there being no deity. I would venture to say that the religion of a secular society is atheism.

If this is true, is taking the Bible and other faith-based materials (ie. the Quran, teachings of Buddha, etc.) out of schools (simply because they hold to faith, as opposed to lack thereof) really providing an unbiased education for children? It is simply biased from the other perspective - the other "religion."

Why not give children a balanced view of everything? I agree firmly that, in public schools, the Bible should not be approached as superior. Instead, I think that schools should provide a comparative religion course as an elective (not required!!!). After all, if the above stated definition of religion is correct, the absence of religion does not exist. One is always promoted because a system of beliefs always exists. In the name of true tolerance, then, why not teach high school students about every religion (including atheism), and let them truly choose for themselves?

Teach religion as religion. I know that some of you are concerned that this is a backhand way to introduce ID into science courses. If this course teaches religion as religion and nothing else, using the texts as religious and literary materials, that will not cross into science. After all, every religion has a creation story.

Is that all you got out of that post?

Come on Momma, are you so defensive about a possible association of Bible and Porn that you completely miss the point and just focus on a few words.

There were a whole lot more *words* in that post than just those. I also compared it to a camel's nose, how come that didn't upset you.

Please try to respond to the context of the post, or ask for an explanation if you don't get it. But don't get all twisted over a choice of words in an analogy.

redeeemed
sorry, no cigar

Rosbourne,

The reason I made a comment to that statement was because I didn't completely understand how you could make that connection. I understood about the camel's nose, so of course, I didn't question it.

Please understand from my perspective that no matter what we (my side of this argument) say, offer as a compromise, etc., seems to be rejected. And it is rather widely assumed in these threads that Christianity has some dark ulterior motive and is trying to force it's way into that tent no matter what.

But, I am afraid I just don't understand how you could equate pornography with the Bible in any way at all. So, if you wouldn't mind, could you explain a bit more what you mean to me? I don't want to make assumptions. It often gets me in trouble.

That would explain the Gospel of Matthew I found hidden under my teenaged sons bed.

Sorry, e_brown... not sure what you mean...

If you mean that it doesn't work, would you explain why? Thanks.

Here is an example of the Bible where you can twist it to your liking. Bible thumpers have selected verses to interprete their prejudices for ages.
I like Christians but I have worries about the Bible Thumpers so below is forthose Thumpers.

Reference: King James Version

Isaiah 14:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
a) I will ascend into heaven,
b) I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
c) I will sit also upon the mount of the Congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 d)I will ascend above the heights of the clouds:
e)I will be like the most High.


COMPARISON:

OLD TESTAMENT
1) Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
(Note: Lucifer is Latin for bright.)

NEW TESTAMENT
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. (How arrogant, naming himself after such a lustrous heavenly body!)

OLD TESTAMENT
2) Isaiah 14:13 I will ascend into heaven


NEW TESTAMENT
Luke 24:51
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

OLD TESTAMENT
3) Isaiah 14:13
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

The stars of God are the Israelites. (See Numbers 24:17 "...there shall come a Star out of Jacob,...")

Genesis 15:5
And he brought him forth abroad, and said,
Look now towards heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him,
So shall thy seed be.

Deuteronomy 10:22
Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons, and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his the glory, ye also shall sit upon thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

OLD TESTAMENT
4) Isaiah 14:13
I will sit also upon the mount of the Congregation, in the sides of the north.
[Note:
a) Mt. Ophel, just south of the Temple Mount, has been identified as Mt. Zion. Jesus as a child sat in the Temple.
b) Location of the Last Supper is just north of (Mt. Zion?)]

Psalm 48:2
Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

NEW TESTAMENT
Luke 2:46
And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

Matthew 26:20
Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

Luke 22:14
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

5) Isaiah 14:14
I will be like the most High.

God says He is the first and the last in the following passages:-

OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus says that he is the first and the last in the following passages:-

Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and untoLaodicea.

Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

God's garments are sprinkled with blood in the following passage:-

OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 63:3
I have trodden the wine press alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Jesus' garment is dipped in blood in the following passage:-

NEW TESTAMENT
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

OLD TESTAMENT
In Isaiah, new heavens and new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-

Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

NEW TESTAMENT
In Revelation, a new heaven and a new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea.

OLD TESTAMENT
God is the bridegroom of His people in the following:-

Isaiah 62:5
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus is the bridegroom of his followers in the following:-

Matthew 9:15
And Jesus said unto them, Can the chilren of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and shall they fast.

Mark 2:19.
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20. But the days will come, while the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

Luke 5:34.
And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridegroom fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
35. But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

Revelation 19:7.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 20:9.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Isaiah 14:19
"But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch,..."
Note: The image of Jesus on the cross confirms it for there is no gravesite of him.

Jesus fits the descriptions of Lucifer almost to a T.
So is Jesus God or Lucifer?

talk72000,

I have no clue as to how you would think any of this points to Jesus fitting the description of Lucifer.

No, of course not . . . and it is tedious to have to point out the same objections again and again.

It is the particularism involved--the fact that an institution of the state, no matter how indirectly, is involved in the promotion of a single scriptural canon. Are you going to hold the course in the gymnasium or the auditorium so that one priest or minister of every conceivable sect of christianity is present to comment and explain? In essence, this is an attempt by charismatic or fundamentalist Protestant sectaries to no simply push christianity as more significant than any other particular superstition, but their own preferred version thereof.

As a simply pragmatic matter, i don't for a moment believe in the sincerity of "your side" saying they are willing to pay every last dime. I've never in my life met a meaner, more penny-pinching bunch than christian divines . . .

Setanta,

Well, it seems even if you are offered a compromise you won't accept it. It was just a discussion. So, you go on and think what you will, as it is obvious you do.

Unless Chrisitianity is eradicated, I do not think you will be happy.

That is nothing more than base slander. I don't have any interest in seeing any religion eliminated. Nor do i intend to ignore attempts by the superstitious to foist their superstitions off on others, especially at the public expense.

I've already pointed out that i consider compromise unacceptable, precisely because of the particularism implicit in such an endeavor. In general, because a course dedicated soley to the bobble promotes christianity in despite of any other creed or the absence of creed; specifically, the particularism of evangelical christians, who are those who wax hysterical about this topic, insisting that god is under attack, or that their religion is under attack, if they are not allowed to shove it all down the throats of others at the public expense.

I'm sure you do like to think that others want to eradicate your silly superstitions--martyrdom is cherished by the christians, especially when they can make it look as though they are martyrs without actually suffering for their beliefs . . .

I did not slander you, Setanta. I made a statement of how I felt based on what you have posted in these threads.

Yes, you won't accept compromise. You continually point out that Christians are doing this and that, and what our motives appear to be. Yet, when we offer to compromise to show that we are trying to be fair and accomodate everyone, you are the one that will not accept the compromise.

I find that very puzzling.

MA, I also am puzzled. Especially when you say things like
"we are trying to be fair and accomodate everyone". The logic just doesn't to work out.

The Christian compromise: You give in while I force my religion on you.

at tax payers expense.

hmmm, what about Greek and Roman mythology in public schools, au? Taught in the right context, the bible as literature can be part of a culteral and literary lesson.

Someone else thought that it needs to wait until Christianity falls into mythology before being taught but it's a pretty good read on its own.

at public expense.
(Thanks, dys).