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Kidney Friendly Diet: Vegetable Protein? Animal Protein?

 
 
Noddy24
 
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 01:55 pm
Mr. Noddy is a long term diabetic. I've been cooking a diabetic-friendly, heart healthy diet for nigh on 30 years.

As can be expected with long-term diabetics, Mr. Noddy is now suffering extensive kidney damage and advised to cut down on his protein.

I've taken a cursory look on the Internet, but haven't been able to find whether or not vegetable protein is as taxing for ailing kidneys as animal protein.

Does anyone know?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,202 • Replies: 13
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 02:04 pm
Noddy- I think that you will find these sites useful:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002442.htm

http://www.kidney.org/atoz/atozTopic.cfm?topic=4
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 04:03 pm
Phoenix--

I thought I could count on your research. I had found those sites, but neither of them address the question of animal vs. vegetable protein--except for the mention of "incomplete amino acids".

You did give me extra ammo for "Why you should stop using canned soups, particularly when you add extra salt."

Have you noticed, life requires never-ending education?

Many thanks. Hold your dominion.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 04:36 pm
Noddy- Canned soups are the worst. If Mr. N. really wants soup, take a look at the Pritikin Soups. They have around 290 mg. of sodium, as opposed to 600-900 mg. or more on regular soups. The problem is, that in order to flavor the soups, they do tend to use a bit more pepper than I like.

Did you see this page in the site that I posted?


http://www.kidney.org/atoz/atozItem.cfm?id=59

This looks good, too!

http://uuhsc.utah.edu/pated/handouts/handout.cfm?id=858
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 05:13 pm
Phoenix--

Again, thanks.

I've always fought against adding salt to canned soup. Now I'm fighting the salt and the soup and next week I'll suggest that saltines with the salty canned soup aren't really a good idea.

Mr. Noddy doesn't really want a healthy diet. Mr. Noddy wants meat & potatoes and all ailments of mind and body removed. I'm just battling one can of soup at a time.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:32 pm
My gut instinct says that protein is protein - whether animal or vegetable.

Health food stores often offer low-sodium canned soups. I could name brands if you're interested.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:40 pm
http://www.kidney.org/atoz/atozItem.cfm?id=59
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:44 pm
That looks useful!

It seems to be indicating that if you're limiting protein intake, meat protein is better ("high-value"). As in, both are taxing, but one provides more benefits than the other.

Meanwhile, this all sounds like a rather significant challenge. Hold your dominion.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:48 pm
Soz, after going through a few websites, I wasn't sure what the take-home lesson was from the link I posted.

Indeed, Noddy, hold on tight.
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:54 pm
Here's what I found. A lot of the studies seem to be about women; and I wonder if that will make a difference. However, it seems that a lot of sources say that Animal protein is actually harder on the kidneys. This makes sense to me. Anyways, feel free to check these out if you like.


[/I]http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/03.13/09-kidney.html

The research team analyzed kidney function by measuring the estimated glomerular filtration rate (GFR) - an indication of how effectively the kidney is filtering the blood in order to remove waste from the body.The data suggested that the type of protein consumption was also an important variable. A change in GFR was only significant among women consuming large amounts of nondairy, animal proteins.

http://abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_810492.htm

The research by the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston found that high total protein intake, particularly animal protein, may accelerate loss of kidney function in women who had mild chronic kidney disease.

However, animal and plant proteins differ in their effect on your kidneys. Consuming soy protein is associated with kidney changes comparable to those resulting from a low-protein diet. This raises the possibility that people with kidney disease may be able to liberalize their protein intake by using soy protein. (Do not change any diet prescribed for kidney failure unless directed by your doctor and registered dietitian).

http://www.solaeliving.com/healthbenefits/otherhealthbenefitsofsoyprotein.jsp

Research has also shown that consuming soy protein instead of animal protein decreases levels of harmful fats in your blood.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 07:03 pm
That seems to be specifically about soy rather than vegetable, in general.

But useful!
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 07:27 am
Have you discussed this with his nephrologist and looked into getting a dietary consultant?
What has been said so far is on target...the different effects of animal protein as compared to vegetable protein. Fats and sodium and how they effect the kidneys. To some degree each person is different though when it comes to how the body itself will metabolize the products being consumed. This in part is why there are those who gain weight and those who lose weight on different dieting plans...each person reacts differently. That said, the main thing for the kidney health is to limit protein as much as possible...but look around it is in just about everything.

Additionally, I am wondering if he is on dialysis as of yet. This will increase overall risks, but one of the odd factors I remember my (now deceased)brother-in-law had was that when he went on dialysis he was actually told to increase his protein intake. Unfortunately I do not know why that was, it may have had to do with the overall function of the entire body. My brother-in-law was not a diabetic so this too may be a factor, as his kidney disease was not related to pre-existing health factors.


My main focus towards getting a good food regimen in place would be to start off by consulting the doctors...they may be resistant so push hard.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 09:01 am
I agree with Sturgis- Talk to Mr. N's nephrologist, and have him reccommend a good nutritionist, who is experienced with kidney patients.

Just perusing through a number of sites, I came away with one particular thought that seems to run through a lot of them. Go heavy on the "good" vegetables, and light on the meat.

I remember, years ago, reading something about the traditional Chinese diet. A remark was made that Americans use their protein as the main food source in a meal. The Chinese used animal protein for flavoring.

The reason for this, at the time, was that the Chinese did not have the quantities of meat available to them that Americans did, on account of cost. I think that if you could adapt your mindset to the idea that meat is for flavoring, with veggies as the main part of the meal, it would be helpful. It is an entirely different perception than we are used to, but IMO in would stand Mr. N. in good stead.

Now, you need to get a wok................................ Laughing
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 10:55 am
Thanks all.

I have assumed that if Mr. Noddy's kidney troubles were just two steps from dialysis that the doctor would be a lot more vocal and a nutritionist would already be in the picture.

Mr. Noddy enjoys High Drama. I would call a Cardio Cath "an outpatient procedure". His Cardio Caths are "heart surgery".

The underlying problem is that Mr. Noddy doesn't want to change his habits. I've been cooking heart healthy for years, but Mr. Noddy likes canned soup and salty snacks and the occasional bag of jelly beans.

I tend to cook in batches and freeze meal sized portions. Reducing meat servings from "size of deck of cards" to "size of deck of cards with cards missing" will be easy. Because of Mr. Noddy's heart troubles, I've already been replacing some animal protein with vegetable protein--although this is not popular.

I've bookmarked all the websites and will be reading closely to see how much Good By Stealth I can accomplish.

Many, many thanks.
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