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What IS the dirty little secret of multilingual people??

 
 
drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2003 03:01 am
Multi-lingualism
Perhaps I have came too late into the discussion- most of the things that could have been discussed have- but I thought I would give my two cents on the issue. I don't think language learning is 'genetic'. My ancestors and my immediate family are, for the most part, scholars, but I was one of the first people in it that could do well in languages; everyone else detested them. Perhaps a willing to want to speak to the world Smile led me to do well. So, despite the fact that all my family (apart from my DJ/Teacher cousin in Ireland who speaks a strange mix of Gaelic, Welsh German and French) despise, detest(ed) and had nothing in the way of an aptitude for languages, I became multilingual (slowly Very Happy ) and now I speak fluent Spanish, French and German as well as having an understanding of Italian, Dutch and Portuguese.

Unfortunately, because I live in England (at the moment, but soon I am moving to el País Vasco) and because my family attached little importance to languages, I had no early start in them and I started at 11, as is the practice in England. Amazingly, I stunned the teachers so much that they asked whether I had Spanish heritage (which I do, but I never learnt the language before that point) and by the time I was 12 or so I could speak Spanish as I could English.. I started German soonafter, then, when I was 17, I picked up French (without the dodgy Franglais accent, thank you Laughing) fluently in three months: the preparation and the infinately harder Spanish subjunctive had prepared me for French grammar, and it was a breeze. So, why did I learn these? Maybe I'm just weird :wink:! Now I can speak to anyone about anything in Spanish, and with a weird concoction of languages (I have had to stop myself saying 'you know' between streams of French, it's a bad habit!) I can survive anywhere.

Anyhow, I think you need three things to succeed in becoming a polyglot if you missed the so-called 'Window of Opportunity' in languages. First of all, a knowledge of grammar is essential- without this, the best one can make is odious baby talk Rolling Eyes personally, I think if you learn the grammar first, all will follow much easier; secondly, you need a desire to become proficient in a language and an ability to communicate well in your own 'lingua materna'. You should try and avoid translating idiomatic expressions in English directly to Spanish, as these really don't make sense and confuse things badly for my students: try and think of the pure form in your own language and translate that. Thirdly, you need to know how languages work... I cannot explain this but you have to understand the base of languages, this is where so many people limit their powers of expression.

Anyway, thank you for reading this waffle, I wish you all good luck (buen chance!! Frespanol at its worst) in your language studies!
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2003 09:44 am
Bienvenue à A2k, drom et sueño.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2003 12:21 pm
And that was your first post, drom et reve, and you can spell practice properly in the right context....not many Britons can manage that, hee hee. Impressive.
Nice to hear from you.

McT
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drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2003 01:55 am
Bonjour! Je suis enchanté de faire votre connaissance. Je trouvai ce forum-ci très recemment: c'etait le résultat d'un recherche Google. Merci pour ton accueil!

As for English, I find one's capabilities in expressing oneself in one's own language get slightly clearer after learning other languages: that is, if anyone is not put off by the strange bien sûrs and strange idiomatic expressions Smile . It is shocking to see that so many people do not know even basic English grammar: so many pupils I have taught do not know you’re from your, they’re from their or there, etc, and their speech is rife with double and even treble negatives: "I'm not giving you no nothing" Confused . But no, I am unfortunately a 'grammar nazi' and do not make these mistakes...
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2003 04:51 am
We have a "language nazi" at this site, who has recently spouted off about how standard english spelling is stupid and ineffecient . . . he used a term--"non-fonetic" spelling. Of course, he hadn't eliminated all such "inefficient" spellings from what he wrote. I didn't bother, but a good refutation wihch occured to off the top of my head was how one is to distinguish your, you're and yore, as well as there, their and they're. Reading what you wrote also made me realize what a nightmare such nonsense is because someone might write "ur," or "yer," or "yor," or "yur" for your or you're. This joker described teaching children to spell standard english as a form of torture . . .
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drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2003 08:23 am
Tsch phonetic English... I cannot think of anything more vile Sad. Did you hear about a group of teenagers who tried to have their text-style English literature papers marked for content rather than language... and there was once a plan to introduce phonetic English to African children. This was all mocked by the author Joseph O'Connor who wrote in the style they advocated:

"The skem wil b veri popular indid. by the yer 2000 it iz hopd that totali fonetic speling wil bi awl the raj and the langwij, as a risult, wil b far mor izy fur evribodi tu unerztand. ov korz sum pipul r surtan to bi unhapi abowt dis... but then, sum pipul wil olwayz bi a payn in the ars wen it cumz tu uropin progrez."

God, it's disgusting and unsightly, isn't it? And, for me, it makes English harder because it gets rid of the sensible Germanic rules of our pronunciation and destroys the opportunity of looking at eptymology...
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Sep, 2003 01:16 pm
We had no food, so we ate the dogs.

We had no food, so we ate the dog's.

Just a little alteration makes a big difference.

I'm with you, d et r
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2003 10:29 am
Set, I think I know of whom you speak. I agree that English spelling is illogical and extremely difficult to master. However, if any reforms are ever to be instituted, this should be done by someone who is throughly familiar with the problems, someone who understands philology and can make logical changes. This does not describe our "language Nazi" friend. To write, "R u going 2 the party?" is not reformist. It is infantile, childish and supremely ignorant.

While I'm up here atop my soapbox, let me add that I heartily approve of some spelling reforms, such as dropping the 'ette' from the word 'cigaret' or eliminatuing the unnecessary vowels from the British spelling of words such as 'favor' and 'flovor.' These reforms harm nobody and help to simplify a complex system of spelling. Lest my British friends object, let me hasten to add that I find 'kerb' a far more sensible spelling than the American 'curb.' Besides, using the British spelling for the surface upon which one walks, there is no danger of confusing noun and verb.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Sep, 2003 01:32 pm
I like "cigarette". Why, I'm not sure. May be something to do with historical context, so you can see where the word has come from, how it developed. Cigar, and cigarette.
Would you like usheret and drum majoret? I wouldn't. And you couldn't have the Rockets at Radio City Music Hall. Could you?
So please leave me segue, surveillance, suave, suede, queue, restaurant, reconnaissance, rendezvous and many more besides. To me, they're fine as they are.
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drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 12:22 pm
I agree with you McTag... cigaret is unsightly and tells you nothing about the eptymology, whereas cigarette is the diminuitive of cigar in the French it came from. I am very (perhaps too Embarrassed) defensive when it comes to slighting the French origin of words and dislike the "defrançaisfication" of our language... after all they make up approx. 45% of the language. I like it as it is; we should not dumb-down our language just because some people cannot get their heads round a few French adaption rules... furthermore, it brings us closer to that beastly populist phonetic---whoops, 'fonetic'--- spelling. On a nowhere nearly related note, I found it quite condescending that people still want to inflict their missionariesque simplified English on Africa: if we could all learn the charming nuances of this languages, what says African people cannot?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 12:49 pm
[Actually, "le cigarillo" is the small cigar - both made of tobacco leaves, while "la cigarette" is "tabac haché, entouré d'un papier très fin" :wink:]
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 03:43 pm
Well that may be so, Walter, but it doesn't detract from the argument about the word "cigarette".
And "cigarillo" sounds suspiciously Spanish to me.

What about "caoutchouc"? Is that word French, or South American, or both?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 03:48 pm
It's cigarillo in German as well. :wink: (Cigar and Cigarette, too Laughing )
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 04:01 pm
Oh well, if the English can talk of meringues.....

And parfum....and modes...and Beaujolais Nouveau...and haute cuisine

I haven't got an ending to this sentence. Fin.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 05:39 pm
Speaking od Beaujolais et haute cuisine, I also heartily approve of the British spelling of 'whisky.' Why the devil we Yanks stick an extra 'e' in there to make it 'whiskey' is quite beyond me.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Oct, 2003 11:39 pm
From the Gaelic, 'uisge beathadh' the 'water ol life'.
Slainte mhath.
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drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Oct, 2003 02:07 am
I cannot find cigarillo in any German dictionary of mine... and I have a huge dictionary that enduces sciatica any time one tries to bring it to German class Confused I did however find zigarre and zigarette. Furthermore, I didn't mean that cigarette actually means "little cigar"; I was saying that that was how the word was made, the diminuitive -ette making it "little cigar". I know that might be particularly confusing, but I wasn't referring to little cigars. And yes, the Spanish word for cigarette is cigarrillo.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Oct, 2003 02:21 am
Well, cigarillo is the more 'antique' way of writing - mostly only used in brand names on tha packages.

Moder writing is Zigarillo.

http://www.cigarworld.de/content/lexikon.shtml#c
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drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Oct, 2003 04:10 am
True, but that had nothing to do with the fact that cigarette was made from cigar and -ette! Confused
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Oct, 2003 05:39 am
Right ... and I was only referring to
Quote:
I cannot find cigarillo in any German dictionary of mine...

Laughing
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