US Soldiers on Speed?

Frolic wrote:

But its almost the only country in modern history that enlarged by the means of war.

And what about South Kuril Islands and the Kaliningrad (Königsberg) area annexed by the USSR after the WWII? I have never heard that these were returned to respectively, Japan and Germany...
And what about Eastern Prussia and Pomeranien annexed by Poland?
And, by the way, the West Bank and Gaza Strip have never been annexed by Israel, and they are not parts of it. Just like the Sinai Peninsula. If there is a real prospect for peace, even the cold one (but without terror), these may be returned to the Arabs. Right now they are being used as a bargaining argument for the future permanent solution negotiations. Settlers constitute several percents of the overall Israeli population, and if the decision is made, they will be evacuated forcefully by the IDF and police, just like the Sinai Peninsula settlers were.

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By the way, I wonder, why does not Frolic defend rights of self-determination for the Western Sahara inhabitants? As far as I remember, this area was occupied by Moroccan army, and Morocco really means to annex it. BTW, Western Saharans are Arabs and Muslims, just like the Palestinians are.
And what about rights of self-determination of the Iranian, Syrian, Iraqi, etc. Kurds? I have never seen any comments of Frolic supporting the idea of establishing the independent Kurdish state...

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The things you talk about were in the aftermath of the most devastating and horible event ever occured in the history of mankind.

We all know future wars in the Middle East will be fought for the blue gold: Water. The Golan Heights are essentiel for water supply so they will never be returned to the rightfull owner. Even Rabin said in 1992 "Whosoever gives up the Golan Heights, abandons the security of the State of Israel."

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steissd wrote:

And what about rights of self-determination of the Iranian, Syrian, Iraqi, etc. Kurds? I have never seen any comments of Frolic supporting the idea of establishing the independent Kurdish state...

The Kurds are a people that lived under various rulers but with great autonomy. It think they dont realy want a souvereign nation. If they get the chance they will, of course. but i think they'll setlle with more autonomy.

You know i never visited Turkey because of the Kurdish issue.

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I am not sure that the Kurds would agree with you.

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cobalt wrote:

I'd love to see the zealous so-called Patriots suddenly tripped up themselves. You see, the main point of most Patriots is the very same thing that George Bush (senior said in 1971) "a suspect would not be a suspect unless they were guilty".

Umm yeah.. Except Bush never said it.. Punch your supposed quote into Google. It doesn't come up anywhere. Not one single time.

And that is the very problem with the so called "dissenters". While disagreeing with the government may not be unpatriotic, fabricating stories to convince others and advance a political agenda under false pretenses usually is.

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fishin' wrote:

cobalt wrote:
I'd love to see the zealous so-called Patriots suddenly tripped up themselves. You see, the main point of most Patriots is the very same thing that George Bush (senior said in 1971) "a suspect would not be a suspect unless they were guilty".

Umm yeah.. Except Bush never said it.. Punch your supposed quote into Google. It doesn't come up anywhere. Not one single time.

And that is the very problem with the so called "dissenters". While disagreeing with the government may not be unpatriotic, fabricating stories to convince others and advance a political agenda under false pretenses usually is.

Just so long as you're as vigilant when the government fabricates stories to convince others and advance a political agenda. They've been known to do that too, y'know

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Israel
Well I think you're both a little right and both a little wrong. Israel was given that land during the aftermath of WW2 since there were vast amounts of Jewish refugees needing homes and compensation. Giving them back the mother land (and of course a crucially sacred area) killed two birds with one stone. Unfortunately there were people living there already, called Palestines.

The west refused to acknowledge there bad move and supported Israel even with huge Palestinian objection. Naturally there's been huge hatred and conflict ever since with both groups claiming rights to the area.

The crucial difference though is that the Palestinians are being oppressed by the state of Israel, which has been steadily been claiming more and more land from the Palestinians and isolating them more from the rest of the world up to the present time which has them virtually imprisoned in an apartheid.

Obviously not something the government of Israel wants to admit to after literally thousands of years of being opressed themselves. However the current situation is dispicable, and I have to side with the Palestinians. All they've been asking for is an area to call their own, and for Israel to coexist, whereas Israel has refused them this and been steadily invading more and more.

I see and hear a fair bit of anti-americanism (certainly not hatred, but maybe frustration), but I never hear anti-Israelism. I personally blame the West for creating the situation in the first place, and for letting it continue for so many decades.

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Cobalt, as much as i'd trully love that to be a genuine quote, I can't find it anywhere on the net either. Sad

upon looking though I hit something more disturbing. It's from another forum and not a reliable source per-say, but it's worth a read anyway as it sounds all too familiar:
http://www.baseboard.net/forums/showthread/t-2193.html

This bit in particular struck me:

Quote:

According to the Bush administration, those classified as enemy combatants can be held indefinitely, without being formally charged, without access to attorneys, without the right to remain silent and without the possibility of bail. Put simply, those the administration deems to be enemy combatants -- on whatever meager, unsupportable evidence -- are stripped of all of their constitutional rights, for as long as the administration considers necessary.

It's inspired me to start a new thread:
The Bush Broken Constitution Game

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Montana wrote:
I have also been accused of being anti-American because I don't like the US government. I was born and raised in the US and have many many American friends, so I resent it very much when I'm labeled as being anti-American.

dafdaf wrote
If you love America then you Will back the government. If you don't support the establishment, then you are unpatriotic, a communist, against freedom, and no doubt a terrorist.

Obviously, that's bollocks. But it's a view that seems to be creeping more and more into the culture. I just posted a message on a different forum about this. I think patriotism is being corruptly used as a modern day witch hunt.

Patriotism is a good thing in the sense that it gives us a feeling of belonging, and that it's nice to feel a part of something good we are contributing towards. But perversely, patriotism increases voting apathy (if the president says so, then i guess it's okay by me...), and can be used to slander people who oppose the state.

Is it true that French Fries are called 'Freedom Fries' over there now? I thought that was ajoke at first. Now, it seriously worries me.

dafdaf
I hear that. Very scary!!!

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US Soldiers on Speed?

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