America does not honor NAFTA agreements! Free trade, eh?

NAFTA gives Washington 1 week to cut softwood duties
NAFTA panel gives Washington one week to cut softwood lumber duties BETH GORHAM
2 hours, 18 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (CP) - A NAFTA panel has given the United States until next Wednesday to drastically cut duties on Canadian softwood lumber, rejecting a request from American officials for another delay.

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The order Wednesday was the latest in a string of decisions favouring Canada under the North American Free Trade Agreement in a bitter battle that's been going on for years.

It was unclear whether the U.S. Commerce Department will continue to stall on an issue that has recently raised hackles at the highest levels and soured the Canada-U.S. relationship.

Franklin Lavin, a department undersecretary, said U.S. officials are closely reviewing the panel's order and would provide a response by the Nov. 23 deadline.

Canadian officials said the Americans will either comply, refuse to go along with the NAFTA decision or appeal to what's called an extraordinary challenge committee.

In Ottawa, International Trade Minister Jim Peterson said Canada has "strongly opposed any motion to delay the inevitable."

"We must keep our eye on the ball; the NAFTA must be respected. Here is a prime opportunity for the U.S. to recommit to the treaty it signed, plain and simple."

The panel has told Washington five times that it must all but eliminate punishing penalties of more than 16 per cent on Canadian lumber.

But the United States hasn't complied. In August, Ottawa broke off negotiations toward a new softwood deal after Washington said it wouldn't abide by what experts call the definitive ruling under NAFTA.

Late last month, the Commerce Department asked for clarification of the panel's order but the request was rejected Wednesday.

John Allan, president of the B.C. Lumber Trade Council, said Americans now have no choice now but to acknowledge that Canadian softwood isn't unfairly subsidized and dumped on the U.S. market.

But Carl Grenier, president of the Free Trade Lumber Council based in Quebec, predicted they'd do so only grudgingly and would probably appeal the free trade panel's August decision.

"They'll say we're doing this under duress, we believe the NAFTA panel was wrong, it exceeded its authority and so on," said Grenier.

"Then they'll request an extraordinary challenge panel, which would of course suspend the implementation of the lower rate."

Prime Minister Paul Martin is insisting that the United States return at least $3.5 billion Cdn of some $5 billion in duties collected from Canadian companies.

He's been cranking up the volume on Canada's dismay over the issue, suggesting the hard-fought battle could lead to retaliation on other trade fronts like energy.

On Wednesday, Martin said he planned to tell President George W. Bush at an Asia-Pacific summit in South Korea that Canada is "in the right" on softwood.

Americans want to negotiate a settlement and U.S. officials like Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and U.S. ambassador David Wilkins have been telling Canada to tone down the rhetoric.

"We are not going to negotiate a win," said Martin. "The fact is that Canadian companies are in the right and I'm not going to back off of that."

Meanwhile, U.S. lumber producers insisted Wednesday the Commerce Department shouldn't comply with the NAFTA panel's order.

"The fundamental fact that Canada's lumber industry receives billions of dollars in annual subsidies derived from Canadian taxpayer-owned forest resources has not changed and is at the core of this trade dispute," said Steve Swanson, head of the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports.

"NAFTA panels must not be allowed to trump U.S. law."

The American coalition has launched a constitutional challenge of NAFTA's dispute resolution mechanism, a lawsuit that could take years.

American companies discount NAFTA decisions and point to rulings from the World Trade Organization that affirm the U.S. position.

On Tuesday, the world body found the U.S. Commerce Department had modified its import duties and was complying with international trade rules.

Canada is appealing that ruling.

EM Notes: Come on, America! What do you need for proof that you are in the wrong? The world is watching you...........also, NAFTA rulings trump WTO rulings (easy to check that out on the 'net) and America knows that. More mind games.

(So, you lose, America! Where or where will you get your oil, etc now? Best remember you aren't the world's largest supplier of much of anything. Except bombs.
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Canada uses China's oil thirst in U.S lumber dispute with Washington over lumber

America's northern neighbor turning to the East after losing patience over NAFTA snafu

2005-10-16 / Associated Press / By Beth Duff-Brown

A payloader carries a stack of wood at lumberyard Friday in Armstrong, Quebec. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin spoke with President Bush by phone Friday but they failed to make any progress on the dispute over lumber tariffs./Associated press
Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin told some New York executives last week that Washington's refusal to adhere to NAFTA rulings on lumber tariffs was threatening North American trade relations, while reminding them that China was thirsty for the Canadian oil and natural gas that pours into American homes and cars each year.

Natural Resources Minister John McCallum was in Beijing this week to meet with the presidents of China's two largest state-owned oil companies, and exclaimed to Canadian media that China was salivating for more of Canada's energy sources.

"Clearly they are ambitious in their thinking," McCallum told The Globe and Mail. "They are definitely, seriously interested."

It appears Ottawa's new strategy in dealing with the United States is to pressure it into returning some C$5 billion (US$4.2 billion) in punitive softwood lumber tariffs - or risk losing endless access to Canada's robust energy supplies.

Canada, the world's third-largest producer of natural gas and ninth-largest of oil, is the leading supplier of crude and refined oil products to the United States, according to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

Canada exports 2.1 million barrels of oil each day and provides 10 percent of the oil consumed by Americans each year.

Yet Canadian and U.S. analysts say the new angle of playing the China card is mostly posturing ahead of elections faced by Martin's minority government early next year. Canadians love to rail against U.S. global dominance and take great pride in their politicians standing up to Washington.

Martin telephoned U.S. President George W. Bush on Friday and warned him that Canada would wage its battle over lumber tariffs in the U.S. courts if necessary, while Bush countered that a negotiated settlement was in their best interest.

"(Martin) told the president that we view it as a shame that we should have to take the U.S. to court in its own country to make that point," said Martin spokeswoman Melanie Gruer. "But we're more than prepared to do so - and we will do so."

The Bush administration imposed the tariffs in 2002, accusing Canada of subsidizing its lumber industry. Most U.S. timber is harvested from private land at market prices, while in Canada, the government owns 90 percent of timberlands.

North American Free Trade Agreement panels have twice ruled in favor of Canada. But Washington has ignored the NAFTA rulings, pointing to a preliminary World Trade Organization ruling that said the United States had complied with international law when it imposed the tariffs.

Ottawa says NAFTA trumps WTO and that Washington should dump the tariffs and pay up.

"Forgive my sudden departure from the safe language of diplomacy, but this is nonsense. More than that, it's a breach of faith," Martin told the Economic Club of New York on October 6. "Countries must live up to their agreements. The duties must be refunded. Free trade must be fair trade."

He mentioned several times in his speech that China was eager to buy up Canadian lumber and tap into the bounty of western Alberta province, where oil sands now produce more than 1 million barrels of oil a day, a figure expected to reach 2.7 million by 2015.

"In terms of trade - in terms of our prosperity - clearly the opening of China and India present opportunities which both of us, as sovereign countries, will seek to exploit," Martin said.

So, you're gonna hold your oil hostage, eh?

Hmmm . . . come to think of it, I think CANADA had something to do with 9/11. Big Dick's gonna scrape up some intelligence on the matter, and soon the US'll occupy Canada and call it Operation Canadian Freedom.

OOOHHHHH! I'm SOOO scared!!!!

(Isn't it little Dick, tho?)

31 million pissed off insurgants (Canadians) can be quite formidable, as the Americans are finding out in Iraq.

You Yanks would freeze your arses off in Canada!!! All we'd have to do is stick your tongues to a flagpole when it's minus 35 celcius. We'd call it Operation American Popsicle.

HA HA, That's good.

Englishmajor,

I do not understand you one bit. Are you trying to declare war on the United States for Canada's sake? Have you nothing good to say about the United States?

Why such hatred for America and Americans girl? You are, afterall, still an American citizen!

english,
You need MORE of canadian WEED. Get that relaxed attitude and sip some java in beautiful BC.

This is like a black guy saying all black people are stupid. It's hilarious.

Didn't mean to ignore you, but I forgot about this thread for a few days. So your family is from the Newberry area? Small world. I enjoy living here. Been here since 1975. It is a lovely city with always something going on. The biggest thing right now is the demolishing of the old Cooper River Bridges (the Pearman and Grace bridges). Hate to see them go, but we've needed a new on for so long. In fact, just Tuesday they detonated another section. Oh well.

Oh, and no hurricanes this year. In fact, even last year wasn't bad. Just one little blow that kinda just brushed us. Seems last year they all hit Florida and this year it was the Gulf Coast's turn. I figure next year we better keep our heads down. :wink:

Anyway, enough hijacking of this thread I guess. Keep warm up there. And of course, like with any of y'all on A2K, if you ever head down here to Charleston, let me know. We'll get together for a drink.

Flushd,

Didn't you read the article about the softwoods decision? Being Canadian, doesn't it piss you off that America is screwing Canada over?Again? I don't know about Manitoba, but we have mills shut down here and people out of work. Thank you, America! What else can you do us for?

I am relaxed (actually I am laughing at most of the posts I see, esp. from MA who just doesn't get it!).

I prefer red wine to stink weed. Et tu?

I like red wine AND stink weed, myself.

No, it doesn't piss me off that much. Yes, there are problems. Always are though, right?!
No use getting too upset. That clouds the judgement. If I can't do anything; that is that. If I can do something, I do.

I guess my way of 'doing something' is making people aware. It doesn't take much effort, on my part, to cut and paste articles that might elucidate things for the 'merikans eh? It if pisses them off, at least that's a reaction of some sort.

It is sort of funny that, generally, Canucks seem to bury their heads in the sand (or wine bottle!) and ignore, politely, of course, what the Americans are up to. If I have to expend a bit of energy on my part to help keep Canada out of America's grasp, I will. Being an ex- American I do know what 'they' are capable of. I have spent way too much time, energy, money and emotions getting to Canada to watch it turn into the 51st state. Canada is not America. I think there are a lot of differences between the two countries, some subtle, some not. Sleeping next to an elephant ain't any fun is it?

Anyway, enjoy the wine....and the snow!

Has Canada lowered or eliminated their subsidies to your lumber companies?

Sorry? "your" lumber companies being?

You know what I mean. "its" would have been correct, scrap the "their".

This should answer your question about subsidies. Go to this link:

http://w01.international.gc.ca/MinPub/Publication.asp?Language=E&publication_id=382884

Since the US has clearly lost, when are you going to pay up?

If the site does not open try Dept. of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (Canada) or http://w.01.international.gc.ca/MinPub/Publications.asp?

It would not download the article. Sorry.

English,
By all means, enjoy your right to spread the word and your own concerns. There certainly is apathy both in the USA and Canada.

I kinda cringed when you said you are doing it in Canada's name though. Do it in your own name. You do not represent this country. No individual does. That is what I love about it.

Those must be some of those pesky "Canadians Only" websites you've linked to.

As I understand it, the Canadian government allows Canadian lumber companies to harvest on public owned lands for a mere pittance. These lumber companies then proceed to dump it in the U.S. at below fair market prices.

In response, we have applied tarrifs to offset any windfall that Canadian companies may receive from such practices.

Your anti-competitive subsidies have been met with anti-competitive tariffs.

Seems reasonable to me.

But "you" are not the judge in this instance.
The NAFTA ruling was pretty clear, and I'm guessing they know far more about the issue than you ever will.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect he didn't read any of the articles and only knows what CNN/Fox news tells him. As you said the NAFTA ruling is pretty clear, so what part of PAY UP don't ya get, America?
(BTW-the articles are from government websites. Not some independent lumberjack.) :wink: