Starting a Novel...for the 5th Time

My ex is a writer, playwright (I never could figure how to spell that) and screenwriter. He always wrote treatments for screenplays. Thing was, in the writing, the characters gained foothold and vied with him and his sometime writing partner for space outside the outline...and that was often to the good, if disconcerting re the outline.

Still, eoe's synopsis seems the way to go to move ahead.

Ex is a great spontaneous writer. However, many of his pieces got done five or six times and sort of died and got reinvigorated and died and reinvigorated and lost the original verve... upon comments by various experts. I still like some of his early screenplays best. (No, he is not famous.)

So I think maintaining vitality is important, though not perhaps for selling books once you're known, as I see much dead work lying about on shelves..

An exboss is a multipublished medical thriller writer, and I roll my eyes when I read them, hearing his voice behind almost all the characters including the women. Still, he usually tells core good stories.

So, vitality, stories.

Not that that is art, exactly.
I like wordsmiths myself. Trevor, Hazzard, etc.
But they tend not to be on best seller lists.

My problem is that I do a whole lot of technical writing which has nothing to do with the creative process. The stuff I write about often is loaded with creative solutions to problems or res,earch or expedition findings but its like a telephone book, very dull with lots of names of **** we find.
Ive always wanted to write something creative but have, after many long years of arguing with myself, Ive admitted that I CANT WRITE FOR ****, well actually I can write for **** but then again, thats the whole problem.
Now my technical wreiting is always written in longhand with afountain pen. There is something that confers authority with using a fountain pen. I feel that what Im saying needs to be said. Then, with a really sketchy draft which always has roughly the same structure
INTRODUCTION
PURPOSE AND SCOPE
METHODOLOGY
FIELD LOCATION
SCIENCE STUFF
FINDINGS AND RECCOMENDATIONS,

I usually go home for a coupla days and sit in my underwear at the computer and expand my fountain penned version until I generate about 5 or 6 pounds of HAmermill bond .

Boooring, but, its what I do, and one never slips any creative things in there unless its a very novel solution to the problem at hand. This works counter to when you can make up your own world and populate it, I think. Ive tried sitting down and writing stories and my family gets first dibs. I hate it when they start using phrases that I cooked up and then they take em away (usually laughing).
At least Im not a lawyer, those guys write professionally like they dont want anyone to understand what the hell theyre saying. The notable exception is Joe from Chicago. Hes an excellent writer who just happens to be a lawyer. I find that entirely surprising.
Geologists who become writers , to me anyway, give themselves away at the first chapter. Simon Winchester, I could tell was a defrocked geologist because he dwells on the minutae so much, he often forgets his point, and you can see he just duck taped his original thoughts conclusion in into the end of his chapter so he doesnt look like an old fool. Same thing with John Mcphee, waaaay too much detail.
I wanna write but am no good at it so Ill keep painting and playing the pedal steel those Im pretty good at..

Have you tried poetry, Farmer? I can envision you being good at it, not that I know what I'm talking about.

Bookmark.

MA, you have a point....I haven't really started the same novel, just a 5th different story. I started the other ones and hated the story line or realized that I couldn't develop the story to the end. Somthing came up and now somewhere packed away I have 5 diffrent novels started.
I have a probelm with finishing something that isn't going my way. A flaw I am working on correcting.

Farmer said something very intersting and it made me think of me. "... because he dwells on the minutae so much, he often forgets his point, and you can see he just duck taped his original thoughts conclusion in into the end of his chapter so he doesnt look like an old fool." I tend to get lost in what I am writing and then forget or can't correct the gaps. Maybe this is why I can't finish a book. Hm. I wonder if I just sat down and deconstructed these stories I could take broken, half stories and make them whole. I have long since left those stories and perhaps I can have an entirely new outlook on them. Which leads to Ossos point of vitality. I tend to lose that too somewhere, which is why 5 of the books I've started are packed away somewhere. Boring. My hubby, who wasn't at the time, did read a romance novel I'd started (barf) and said that generally it was pretty good but that there were a lot of unnecessary details. The scientist in me comes out sometimes after I've locked her away for evening and I can't stop looking for and writing details. And while helpful in research or educational books, they can be booooring in a piece of fiction. There are only a handful of writers I know who can successfully write novels that densely and get away with it.

Good thoughts everyone. I am going to be more mindful of that in this novel. I am going to finish one.

The good news is that this one seems to be steaming along nicely. I've written 11 typed pages since Tuesday and haven't managed to move to quickly. Maybe I am moving to slowly but I doubt it. Still setting characters and stuff. I have very high hopes for this one. You know when you get that feeling that something is just right? I have that feeling with this and I hope it doesn't crap out on me.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Even if I don't use it, I will have it in my mind to use if I need it. And it has helped me realize some pitfalls I as a writer have. You people rock.

I prefer writers, like Tom Wolfe, who adds lots of details, so I'm focused on adding more visual detail in my story so that when it's read, the reader can 'see' the scene.

Keep on steamin' along, Bella.

I finally got up my nerve yesterday to send a synopsis to my writerfriend. She liked it alot, gave me some pointers, made suggestions, is wonderfully willing to help me and even said that once I complete three chapters, she will submit it to her agent. It's gonna be a long process. I'm about to start three major assignments back-to-back and can't see having the time nor the inclination to write but who knows? Maybe the time will find me?

I prefer writers, like Tom Wolfe, who adds lots of details, so I'm focused on adding more visual detail in my story so that when it's read, the reader can 'see' the scene.

Keep on steamin' along, Bella.

I finally got up my nerve yesterday to send a synopsis to my writerfriend. She liked it alot, gave me some pointers, made suggestions, is wonderfully willing to help me and even said that once I complete three chapters, she will submit it to her agent. It's gonna be a long process. I'm about to start three major assignments back-to-back and can't see having the time nor the inclination to write but who knows? Maybe the time will find me?

I prefer writers, like Tom Wolfe, who adds lots of details, so I'm focused on adding more visual detail in my story so that when it's read, the reader can 'see' the scene.

Keep on steamin' along, Bella.

I finally got up my nerve yesterday to send a synopsis to my writerfriend. She liked it alot, gave me some pointers, made suggestions, is wonderfully willing to help me and even said that once I complete three chapters, she will submit it to her agent. It's gonna be a long process. I'm about to start three major assignments back-to-back and can't see having the time nor the inclination to write but who knows? Maybe the time will find me?

I prefer writers, like Tom Wolfe, who adds lots of details, so I'm focused on adding more visual detail in my story so that when it's read, the reader can 'see' the scene.

Keep on steamin' along, Bella.

I finally got up my nerve yesterday to send a synopsis to my writerfriend. She liked it alot, gave me some pointers, made suggestions, is wonderfully willing to help me and even said that once I complete three chapters, she will submit it to her agent. It's gonna be a long process. I'm about to start three major assignments back-to-back and can't see having the time nor the inclination to write but who knows? Maybe the time will find me?

CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE REMOVE THIS HICCUP?

eoe, I understand you like Tom Wolfe, why dont you tell us a few times (JUS KIDDING_THE SUBMIT BUTTON HAS A HAIR TRIGGER LATELY)

Bella, try and read some of Simon Winchesters works
"The madman and the Dictionary "( I forgot the title)
The map that changed the world"
"Krakatoa"
Dense doesnt describe it, he ries to spiff up and create a "ripping yarn" but he just sounds like my old Uncle Walt who was a proud accountant and spoke everything in the godawfulest detail. Sometimes extreme detail is not our friend
Ive been reading the Alexander McCaul Smith books about Mma "Precious" Romatswe, the first lady detective in Botswana. Heres a guy who, as a patent attorney (which, if youve ever delt with patent attornies, they are like Banana Slugs in their pace of thought and analysis). But he has taken and created a world for this woman detective and weaves together tales of her cases that wrap around the substantive points of her life. AND, he is not overly descriptive.

I like the idea about creating the plot resolution and then writing to it. I can see the writer being interviewed about how he, or she writes
"Well, see, I writes the ending, and then I start erasing everything that dont lead up to it"

EOE, I see you like Tom Wolfe, care to tell us about it?

Simon Winchester is one of the baddest writer,he uses "density" for all the wrong reasons. He hasnt learned like McMurtry, to weave the dense stuff into a tale that has relevance to the story. Winchester will leave entire sections adrift and never bring em up again.
reda "Krakatoa". I call it "Krapatoa"

I live near Mark Bowden and hes always giving talks about his work. He also says that hes fortunate to have his endings sort of "torn out of the news" and then he just erases everything that doesnt lead up to the ending in an interesting manner. Hes pretty accessible for a major writer. He started as a journalist so his works are historically "sorta" accurate (his words not mine).
He has an ability with phrases that I think are only common among sports writers. Some of the best dports writers are like Mark Twain, and they understand economy.
Im reading a series by Alexander McCAul Smith. Theyre about the "Number one ladies detective agency in Botswana' Really quick but good reads. I love novels that tie many evemnts together.
I remember hearing that the screenplay for "Resrevoir Dogs" was written, it was torn up and thrown in the AIR, THEN it was picked up off the floor i no particular order and the story was created from how the pieces were found. I dont believe that but its a good story in itself.

I've had a couple of silly columns published and I did actually complete and submit a coherent manuscript--a rather predictable Southern Gothic romance.

There is a lot of really good advice here. The one thing I didn't see---and I think is vital--is getting to know your protagonist and a couple of other pivotal characters. This could take weeks--maybe more.

Daydream--formulate their personalities, their reactions, their feelings about this, that. Know them like you do your best friend. Have a mental image of them, know what they like for breakfast. When you know them, you won't have to worry about what happened on page 50 when you're on page 200. You'll know.

Good point....and good advice!


Thanks all! I took a break this weekend to, er, do some drinking and stuff and now I think I've destroyed at least 18 of my book writing brain cells. I need to get myself back on track. Oops.

Well I don't write novels but I write short stories and am working on a collection--my thesis. To be used as the test dummy for a first book.

Reading over the responses here, I thought I'd mention that, unintentionally, I will find myself writing the same story several times.

What I mean is, I'll imagine I'm writing something new, different plot, characters, etc., and then afterward I'll notice that it is shaped like other stories, or involves similar relationships between characters.

I had several stories in which the crisis action involves a main character jumping into water, though in one story it was a river, and in the other it was a swimming pool. That's just an example.

The way I look at it is that, on an unconscious level, I haven't told the underlying story satisfactorily. And it wants to come out, so it keeps poking its head out in new stuff.

In some cases there is something fundamentally wrong with the story that keeps wanting to be written and no matter how many times I try, I am unhappy. Maybe I have exhausted certain characters, certain relationships (e.g. fathers and daughters). Maybe the subject matter isn't personal enough (I don't mean autobiographical).

To combat this I'll mess with point of view, tense, chronology, try to do something new that invariably alters the voice and resembles nothing I've done before, so that I become convinced I'm writing something totally fresh.

Some of my friends are writing novels. The process is different for everyone. One of my buddies just spewed everything out in a year, and then rewrote the first half for the sake of consistency.

My advisor, who just published her second novel, said it took 8 years to write the first one! And it's only 180 pages! She is a meticulous editor, spends months rewriting ten page chapters.

Anything more I could say for encouragment would be cliche. Like, revel in the process, it's a journey! etc.

People forget that it's supposed to be fun. Like it's a major pain in the ass when yer stuck in a rut, but creating something new should be fun. So I second the motion to maybe write short stories, or have some kind of playful not serious side project.

That's sort of what A2K is for me. Though it's starting to interfere.

Keep us updated, Bella! Interested in your progress.

I have not written a lick this week. Everything that could go wrong has and I am spending hours (literally) on the phone with people. Damn storm knocked out our tv...I think it busted a cable. Bank made a late payment to a bill....stupid idiots.

I just haven't been able to sit down and think.

Ah. This is one of the reasons I have so many started and abandoned books.

Just set yourself down each day at an appointed time and clack out a few lines for a particular length of time, be it an hour or be it two hours. Think of the current situations in your life and then think about what you would do with a child and their homework. Even with chaos going on all around, the child still needs to spend some focus time on their homework. This same rule applies towards doing something which you want and need to do for your writing. Do not make excuses, just go for it. It does not necessarily have to be anything of major consequence with regard to the words you write out and in fact they can be edited or deleted later on. The main thing here is to just keep the creative flow going which means going to it each and every day without fail. You can do it and you know you can.

Well, I think I might try and write today. I have a raging headache which makes it difficult to type on the puter and to add thinking to that is, well going to be hard.

But for you sturgis, I am going to try. :wink:

Sturgis is absolutely correct about having a fixed time every day for your creative effort.

After all, if your Magnum Opus can be derailed by the trivia of everyday life, your Magnum Opus probably doesn't deserve to be snatched from primal chaos and put down on paper.