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Racial Slurs OK during campaign say Black Dems

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 10:19 am
Yes, but what's missing from both the article posted and any discussion here is who is responsible for this racism. It's implied that it is "democrats", as in the party or the local democrats in power. But nothing specific is mentioned. In fact, if you read the rest of the article, the "oreo incident", though vile, happened in 2002 when he was running for governor and was perpretated by attendees of a campaign speech. Those attendees might have been politically democrats, but there is no evidence that they represent anyone other than themselves.

In fact, this entire article seems to have been inspired by one left-wing bloggers doctoring of Steele's photo in a racist way. Do right-wing bloggers speak for the Republican party? It's impossible to draw any conclusions from an article like this one, much less form an argument.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 11:27 am
Good points, FD, but i wish dems would denounce these deplorable tactics a bit more forcefully. mouthing platitudes about the rough-and-tumble nature of democracy can be interpreted as a willingness to let the rank & file surrogates do all the dirty work.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 11:59 am
Yes, it would certainly be nice if they would condemn the racism. And you are right that such platitudes can be interpreted as approval -- especially when taken out of context. But I have no faith that such condemnations would be reported in the kinds of outlets that are carrying this story if they were issued.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 12:16 pm
i share your skepticism about the impartiality of the media outlet in question. it's hard to draw the line between spin & journalism these days, and each side of the political fence has done its share of blurring the distinction.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 01:06 pm
slkshock7 wrote:
Should I assume then that if Howard Dean chose to characterize Steele as an "Oreo" or a "clarence-thomas-boolickin-hankyheaded-sellout-uncle-tom -coon", that would be OK, because its simply "pointing out the obvious"?

I'm sorry but I don't see any difference in black on black racism and white on black racism. Either way you are characterizing a black man as somehow lower than yourself. Steele is a victim of racism no matter the color of the skin throwing the disparaging remarks.


Know what? Black people hearing one black calling another a bootlickin etc., etc, will be much more understanding than if a white tried it, but I think you know that.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 02:19 pm
snood wrote:
Black people hearing one black calling another a bootlickin etc., etc, will be much more understanding than if a white tried it, but I think you know that.


I agree, but lets turn it around once more. Do you think it would be equally tolerated among blacks if it was Steele, Thomas, JC Watts or a black conservative/Republican congressional staffer doing the name calling?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 06:11 pm
slkshock7 wrote:
snood wrote:
Black people hearing one black calling another a bootlickin etc., etc, will be much more understanding than if a white tried it, but I think you know that.


I agree, but lets turn it around once more. Do you think it would be equally tolerated among blacks if it was Steele, Thomas, JC Watts or a black conservative/Republican congressional staffer doing the name calling?


Your point is well taken, but moot. It has nothing to do with an objective arbiting of what is equal or fair. No, I don't think blacks (and they haven't elected me representative) would care for Clarence Thomas calling anyone racially derogatory terms, but we can yell "unfair" to the heavens, and it just is what it is.

I happen to think there's some measure of poetic justice in it myself, but that's just me.
0 Replies
 
Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 10:17 pm
Careful, because if you blink, you might miss it. This is how conservatives co-opt progressive language, redefine and twist it to their purposes. A racial slur is an insult meant to degrade on the basis of race, not social or political ideology. Racism is manifested in any expression, on one level or another, of the superiority of one's race. Calling a black person an Uncle Tom or an Oreo is a critique of his or her social and/or political ideology that takes race into account; it is not a degradation of that individual's race, but a harsh criticism of that person's lack of racial awareness. An 'Uncle Tom' is any African American who identifies with the oppressors of African Americans rather than African Americans. The term 'Oreo' carries much the same connotation but also includes a sense of self loathing--the 'Oreo' desires to be less black and more white. The terms 'Uncle Tom' and 'Oreo' are not racial slurs, but accusations of false social consciousness.

Hypocritical of black Democrats to use these terms? Are you serious? The irony here is that most seem to have swallowed this slimy linguistic bait hook, line, and sinker.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 07:14 am
Very good, Mills. I've noticed the way they co-opt sayings from MLK also, and twist them to fit their ideology.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 07:29 am
I totally missed that Mills. Thanks for pointing it out. I think you are correct.
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John Drury
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 03:45 pm
I agree with the idea that racism can come from any side of the aisle and we should condemn no matter who is the source but...

there is just one problem...the Washington Times (one of the sleaziest papers known to man) has been accused of fabricating the comments from the two Democrats quoted in the article.

I hate it when thetruth gets in the way of right wing journalism

http://www.afro.com/content/templates/?a=4180&z=1
0 Replies
 
John Drury
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 03:45 pm
I agree with the idea that racism can come from any side of the aisle and we should condemn no matter who is the source but...

there is problem...the Washington Times (one of the sleaziest papers known to man) has been accused of fabricating the comments from the two Democrats quoted in the article.

I hate it when thetruth gets in the way of right wing journalism

http://www.afro.com/content/templates/?a=4180&z=1
0 Replies
 
John Drury
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 03:51 pm
sorry for the double post

Able was having some trouble there when I was trying to post it
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 06:49 pm
Mills75 wrote:
Careful, because if you blink, you might miss it. This is how conservatives co-opt progressive language, redefine and twist it to their purposes. A racial slur is an insult meant to degrade on the basis of race, not social or political ideology. Racism is manifested in any expression, on one level or another, of the superiority of one's race. Calling a black person an Uncle Tom or an Oreo is a critique of his or her social and/or political ideology that takes race into account; it is not a degradation of that individual's race, but a harsh criticism of that person's lack of racial awareness. An 'Uncle Tom' is any African American who identifies with the oppressors of African Americans rather than African Americans. The term 'Oreo' carries much the same connotation but also includes a sense of self loathing--the 'Oreo' desires to be less black and more white. The terms 'Uncle Tom' and 'Oreo' are not racial slurs, but accusations of false social consciousness.

Hypocritical of black Democrats to use these terms? Are you serious? The irony here is that most seem to have swallowed this slimy linguistic bait hook, line, and sinker.


Fascinating post, and logically correct, and I absolutely see the point...especially when we have the ultra conservatives trying to claim that they are the progressives on such matters....

However, I feel it misses out something.

I understand to, some extent, (I do not of course claim to understand it fully) the sense of outrage felt by black people re those they believe are selling out...it is something I feel strongly re some women, for instance... (here the "oreo" thing is "coconut".....brown on the outside and white on the inside).

However, I would not use abusive words like "bimbo" for women who "sell out"......I think that is going along with the sexist crap I detest, and kind of becoming part of it, when a woman does something I do not like. I would, if necessary, criticise the BEHAVIOUR (eg if the woman concerned was advocating "bimbo" values for all women, in the public sphere) and pick apart her arguments, but I think the use of such pejoratives continues oppression.


I know the "oreo" and "Uncle Tom" thing is somewhat different, since "bimbo" etc are generally pejoratives used of women by men, while the former terms are used by black people in the US to criticise their own.

Nonetheless, I do think that the use of these pejoratives is demeaning to those using them and to rational argument...and I do wonder if it reflects a lingering of the self hate created by racism???


I knpw the "coconut" thing here is highly controversial, and often becomes a further divider and cause for pain in a black community often deeply divided and sometimes far harder on itself, and more damaging to itself, than outside forces....ie the potentially unifying and empowering political struggle becomes an occasion for abusiveness within the black community...(not that this phenomenon is unique to the anti racist struggle!)


Anyhoo, I still think that such language in public discourse is unacceptable...why not name and dissect the PROBLEM, as has been done here very eloquently, rather than throw this kind of abuse at people?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 10:17 pm
snood wrote:
Yeah, me too - but if anyone is in the mood to hear a black hurl some gratuitous slurs at the black conservatives, I'm your man!

Laughing


Shouldn't that read "but if anyone is in the mood to hear a liberal black hurl some gratuitous slurs at black conservatives...?"

But then again, given the quality of your postings, it could also read "but if anyone is in the mood to hear a jackass hurl some gratuitous slurs at black conservatives..."
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 10:22 pm
Mortkat wrote:
I think we must be quite careful before we cast aspersions on the people who excoriate Mr. Steele.

We must really be more sensitive and look at the big picture. In 1998 Louis Farrrakhan spoke at Penn. Several Jewish organizations protested. The President at Penn at the time, Sheldon Hackney, quite correctly pointed out that although Farrakhan's statements were racist and Anti-Semitic, in an academic communitym open expression is the most important value and we can't have freedom of speech only part of the time.


Presumably, you would also caution that we not overreact to Ku Klux Klansmen making public statements about the inferiority of nigras.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 10:24 pm
Mills75 wrote:
Careful, because if you blink, you might miss it. This is how conservatives co-opt progressive language, redefine and twist it to their purposes. A racial slur is an insult meant to degrade on the basis of race, not social or political ideology. Racism is manifested in any expression, on one level or another, of the superiority of one's race. Calling a black person an Uncle Tom or an Oreo is a critique of his or her social and/or political ideology that takes race into account; it is not a degradation of that individual's race, but a harsh criticism of that person's lack of racial awareness. An 'Uncle Tom' is any African American who identifies with the oppressors of African Americans rather than African Americans. The term 'Oreo' carries much the same connotation but also includes a sense of self loathing--the 'Oreo' desires to be less black and more white. The terms 'Uncle Tom' and 'Oreo' are not racial slurs, but accusations of false social consciousness.

Hypocritical of black Democrats to use these terms? Are you serious? The irony here is that most seem to have swallowed this slimy linguistic bait hook, line, and sinker.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:12 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
snood wrote:
Yeah, me too - but if anyone is in the mood to hear a black hurl some gratuitous slurs at the black conservatives, I'm your man!

Laughing


Shouldn't that read "but if anyone is in the mood to hear a liberal black hurl some gratuitous slurs at black conservatives...?"

But then again, given the quality of your postings, it could also read "but if anyone is in the mood to hear a jackass hurl some gratuitous slurs at black conservatives..."


Let's see... Looks like my options here are to ignore you, or to return your comment in kind...

Aw, what the hell. You're a bigger jackass, Finn. so there.
0 Replies
 
 

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