you know I'm really beginning to detest these religious fanatics. They are worth nothing. They contribute nothing except strife. They know nothing. They are horrible ignorant hate filled ***holes.
imho
Actually, the title of this thread should be "Christians, your life is pointless."
If they had any logic or ethics, they would see that religion has done more strife to humans than most other organizations of mankind. To believe they'll have life after death when there's no evidence of such a thing "is pointless." Especially by following one book that has so many contradictions, errors and omissions.
No person has every harmed human being in the name of atheism.
aperson wrote:No person has every harmed human being in the name of atheism.
I believe you are right.
But some well known atheists have subscribed to other isms equally as dangerous.
Stalin comes to mind. I'm sure we could name others.
cicerone imposter wrote:If they had any logic or ethics, they would see that religion has done more strife to humans than most other organizations of mankind.
I would say that organized religion has done more harm than
any other organization. But that's just the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation talking. . .
neologist wrote:I would say that organized religion has done more harm than any other organization. But that's just the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation talking. . .
Except Hitler clearly didn't use organised religion. He convinced ordinary religious people to believe in his white supremacist pseudo-science.
"White supremacist" got sold to many back in the 1930s, but I doubt it'll sell very well today, but anything is possible with a Bush-like presidency in the US. Bush sold "fear," and it still works.
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:neologist wrote:I would say that organized religion has done more harm than any other organization. But that's just the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation talking. . .
Except Hitler clearly didn't use organised religion. He convinced ordinary religious people to believe in his white supremacist pseudo-science.
Google Franz von Papen and tell me if you still believe that.
neologist wrote:Wolf_ODonnell wrote:neologist wrote:I would say that organized religion has done more harm than any other organization. But that's just the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation talking. . .
Except Hitler clearly didn't use organised religion. He convinced ordinary religious people to believe in his white supremacist pseudo-science.
Google Franz von Papen and tell me if you still believe that.
Are you saying that during Hitler's reign, Germany had an overwhelming population of one, Franz von Papen? Or are you saying that Germany, the country of Martin Luther, contains nothing but Catholics?
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:neologist wrote:Wolf_ODonnell wrote:neologist wrote:I would say that organized religion has done more harm than any other organization. But that's just the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation talking. . .
Except Hitler clearly didn't use organised religion. He convinced ordinary religious people to believe in his white supremacist pseudo-science.
Google Franz von Papen and tell me if you still believe that.
Are you saying that during Hitler's reign, Germany had an overwhelming population of one, Franz von Papen?
Are you saying the Catholic Church had clean hands?
The Lutherans supported Hitler as a group, also.
Not saying it could
ever happen again, of course.
Sir Conan Doyle had it spot on! Even in active wars, such as in Iraq, we have priests and ministers asking god to keep our soldiers safe - as we destroy other people's country and innocent people. I think a very conservative count is now over 100,000 innocent Iraqis killed.
neologist wrote:aperson wrote:No person has every harmed human being in the name of atheism.
I believe you are right.
But some well known atheists have subscribed to other isms equally as dangerous.
Stalin comes to mind. I'm sure we could name others.
Ah yes, but that does not scar the name of atheism, for their crimes had nothing to do with atheism. If a Christian murdered someone in the name of an ism which was entirely unrelated to Christianity, I would not attribute the murder to Christianity, just as you should not attribute Stalin's crimes to atheism.
Taken from answers.yahoo.com:
Hitler considered himself to be a Christian.
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
--Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 1
As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3
The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings... If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth... In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8
And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...
- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
Down one, two to go.
Taken from spiritus-temporis.com:
In 1888, Stalin's father left to live in Tiflis, leaving the family without support. Rumors said he died in a drunken bar fight; however, others said they had seen him in Georgia as late as 1931. At eight years old, Soso began his education at the Gori Church School. When attending school in Gori, Soso was among a very diverse group of students. Stalin and his classmates were mostly Georgian and spoke one of the seventy Caucasian languages. However, at school they were forced to use Russian. Even when speaking in Russian, their Russian teachers mocked Stalin and his classmates because of their Georgian accents. His peers were mostly the sons of affluent priests, officials, and merchants.
Related Topics:
1888 - Tiflis - 1931
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Although Stalin later sought to hide his Georgian origins, during his childhood he was fascinated by Georgian folklore. The stories he read told of Georgian mountaineers who valiantly fought for Georgian independence. Stalin's favorite hero of these stories was a legendary mountain ranger named Koba, which became his first alias as a revolutionary. He graduated first in his class and at age 14 he was awarded a scholarship to the Tiflis Theological Seminary, a Russian Orthodox institution which he attended from 1894 onward. In addition to the small stipend from the scholarship he was also paid for singing in the choir. Although his mother wanted him to be a priest (even after he had become leader of the Soviet Union), he attended seminary not because of any religious vocation, but because it was one of the few educational opportunities available as the Tsarist government of Russia was wary of establishing a university in Georgia.
I doubt Stalin even knew about atheism. Down two, one to go.
From website.liedenuniv.nl:
Document 19 explains the basic starting point for handling religious issues and the implementation of the policy of freedom of religious belief. It mainly reiterates the policy of religious issues according to Mao Zedong Thought, such as the United Front with patriotic religious persons in the field of politics; the idea of the 'five characteristics of religion'; the idea that it is absolutely not possible to rely on administrative orders or other coercive means to uphold the extinction of religion; and the idea that the policy of freedom of religious belief is a long-term policy. The document also provided a framework in which new directions could be taken to handle religious issues in China within the overall framework of reform and open-door policies, emphasizing, for example, also the use of law to protect the policy of freedom of religious belief.
Three out of three; all believed in religion.
Shot ci, but I think it doesn't really matter what their beliefs were because as I said before, no person has ever harmed another human being in the name of atheism.
aperson wrote:Shot ci, but I think it doesn't really matter what their beliefs were because as I said before, no person has ever harmed another human being in the name of atheism.
The reason I've posted these articles on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler is so many people of religion name them to tie them to atheism and their history to inhumanities. The people of religion try to tell us that their teaching of morals is important, but they have no evidence that such is the case.
I think maybe a more relevant point is that saying you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian any more than just saying you are an atheist makes you an atheist.
The the claims of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao's beliefs, they certainly didn't seem to actually be atheists. The same can be said for Hitler, he certainly doesn't come off as being very Christian. Perhaps, it's easier to see everythig when you step back.
Perhaps religion has zero to do with these men, and instead it is the fascination with having god-like power over men that truly drove them. If it helped advance their agendas, I'm sure they would use any religion.
I'm reminded of a chapter in Sun Tzu's art of War where it describes keeping the morale of the soldier by making them feel their cause is righteous. Even if he was holding out a Christian and atheist hand, I think it's obvious which hand brought more favor to Hitler's election.
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