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Atheists... Your life is pointless

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 01:11 pm
<lag>
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 01:41 pm
@izzythepush,
You are so right about bumper sticker mentality but I do wonder if one bumper sticker could be more correct than another.

I have not done a thorough research to fbm's type of bumper stickier and was hoping that you would shed some light on the differences, however I did do a little research on H2O's bumper sticker and was hoping that you and others would share your understanding of it's validity.

I seen that they were holding signs that said "backward."

I seen this response and was wondering what your response to all of this is.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-backwards-anti-obama-ad-from-american-crossroads/2012/05/08/gIQAHsX7AU_blog.html

“Backward,” came from the conservative political advocacy group American Crossroads. It appears to be the organization’s answer to the “Forward” video released by President Obama’s campaign.

The ad flashes numbers to back up its claims about rising costs under the current administration: medical costs up 11.2 percent, gas prices have doubled, consumer prices up 8.6 percent.

Let’s take a look at the numbers to see whether American Crossroads proved anything negative about Obama’s tenure.

The Facts

Health care costs have indeed risen 11.2 percent under Obama, but that’s not an extraordinary number in terms of the historic trend. Medical costs have skyrocketed for decades, threatening to reach unsustainable levels as they take up an increasingly larger percentage of GDP.

The important question is: How does the increase under Obama compare with previous administrations? Let’s take a look at every president since Jimmy Carter, measuring the first 39 months for each term, since that’s how much time is on record for Obama with the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Obama: +11.2 percent

George W. Bush’s second term: +14.6 percent

George W. Bush’s first term: +15.4 percent

Bill Clinton’s second term: +11.5 percent

Bill Clinton’s first term: +15.8 percent

George H.W. Bush: +30.9 percent

Ronald Reagan’s second term: +23.7 percent

Ronald Reagan’s first term: +35.2 percent

Carter: +34.7 percent

As you can see, the current president beats everyone on that list. Furthermore the rate of growth slowed under Obama and Clinton, whereas it increased under Reagan and both Bush presidencies. In context, the 11.2 percent figure only hurts the American Crossroads argument. It shows an improvement over previous administrations.

In terms of pain at the pump, American Crossroads brought up a commonly used but misleading statistic that shows the cost of gas doubling since Obama entered the White House. We explained in a previous column that gas prices were artificially low when the president took office because demand for energy plunged during the economic crisis.

The cost of gas has certainly increased since then, with the average price rising from $1.93 to about $3.86 per gallon as of March, according a graph from the Energy Information Administration. But it still hasn’t reached the inflation-adjusted high of $4.29 per gallon that occurred in June 2008 under George W. Bush.

As for the rise in “consumer prices,” that phrase refers to the consumer price index. American Crossroads found its 8.6 percent figure by looking at BLS data for all items, non-seasonally adjusted. Economists generally use seasonally adjusted numbers, and they look at “all items less food and energy” to exclude two types of products with highly volatile prices.

We’ll examine Obama’s numbers by both measures, keeping in mind that the president has had little control over the price of gas so far, since his drilling policies have barely taken effect.

According to the American Crossroads metric, the consumer price index did indeed increase by 8.6 percent during Obama’s first 39 months in office. By contrast, the number rose by just 5.5 percent during the last 39 months under the younger Bush, suggesting a backward trend for the current administration.

This marks the first time since the Carter era that overall consumer prices have risen more under a new president — at least by this measure. It’s worth mentioning that Obama’s first 39 months showed less inflation compared to the same period for Clinton (9.2 percent), the elder Bush (15 percent), Reagan (17.9 percent) and Carter (36.9 percent).

Now let’s look at the seasonally adjusted consumer price index for all items less food and energy. By this metric, Obama has shown an improvement over his predecessors:

Obama’s first 39 months: 5.1 percent

George W. Bush’s last 39 months: 7.3 percent

George W. Bush’s first 39 months: 6.3 percent

Clinton’s first 39 months: 9.5 percent

Reagan’s first 39 months: 20.8 percent

Carter’s first 39 months: 32.5 percent

It’s important to note that inflation in and of itself is not a bad thing. Economists say an annual rate of about 2 percent is healthy, as opposed to deflation, which means the economy is experiencing trouble.

Here are the average annual inflation numbers for each president, looking at the seasonally adjusted consumer price index, less food and energy:

Obama’s first 39 months: 1.6 percent

George W. Bush’s last 39 months: 2.2 percent

George W. Bush’s first 39 months: 1.9 percent

Clinton’s first 39 months: 2.9 percent

Reagan’s first 39 months: 6.4 percent

Carter’s first 39 months: 10 percent

We should point out that Obama’s average annual inflation number under the American Crossroads metric is only 2.6 percent, which is roughly on target for what economists refer to as “normal inflation.”

The Pinocchio Test

American Crossroads burned itself by suggesting that health care costs have risen too fast under Obama. The rate of growth is slower than during any administration since at least Carter. In this regard, the ad’s premise is factually incorrect, because the president has moved the nation forward, not backward.

As for gas prices, they have indeed doubled since Obama took office, and the economy sat in a deep recession. But they still haven’t reached the high that the nation experienced under the younger Bush.

In terms of inflation, the president’s numbers are unexceptional no matter which way you look at them. The situation has improved in terms of the seasonally adjusted consumer price index less food and energy. And it’s roughly on target for normal inflation when it comes to the American Crossroads measurement.

Overall, American Crossroads earns Three Pinocchios for its misleading claims about price increases under Obama.

0 Replies
 
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 07:41 pm
@izzythepush,
You'd know .. Soggy
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 08:08 pm
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 08:12 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/71817_424635057610985_1526384900_n-1.jpg
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 08:20 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Sometimes, people are just trolling...

What is the significance to any single such picture you have posted, if you reject that there are Gods?

Who really cares what believers think? You do not believe it, or reject it correct?

So are you saying you reject, or do not believe those pictures are true? Why post them then? You believe that they are true? Then you reject nothing about any living God...only what you subjectively judge as necessary...
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 08:43 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I wish I could reply, Spade, but your sentences are garbled. I can't make out exactly what you're asking. I posted those pictures because they point at something significant and relevant to the discussion. I wonder why they upset you so?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:13 pm
@FBM,
You understand exactly what I have said...and you know why...you are an English level professor remember?

There are 2 options and only 2...that not a single atheist has yet to have the courage to actually admit what their answer actually is and why..., and it is because either way they answer that question they lose this fight...and there is no winning for them...

Either, one must explain why they believe God is an asshole...and be set free of what they say theists are brainwashed by...stop any potential protection this God has to offer, and accept whatever consequence this God chooses is appropriate...even if they want to reject it is true...and even if this God chooses to still be there or protect them in ways that they do not understand because they are afraid...and then there is no sufficient reason to believe that their belief is more valid than any theist's is...and they could never evade this any longer...

On the other hand they must admit that they have no idea what they believe or believe they know about any living God...because they do not believe, and reject...Or do not believe in any Gods, or reject any Gods, or reject any belief in Gods...and then the whole rejection thing shits the bed...and they know this...because as it currently stands, an atheist has the freedom to act superior and claim that they are ignorant to what they believe this God is...and then they can also explain how they believe that this God is an asshole, without admitting that they believe it is true, just like a theist does not...but saying that they reject this is true...just like a theist does not...

But God himself knows that they are doing this...And he can not be fooled...Or duped...

Take the challenge! Tell me what you believe about this God if you mean it!
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:18 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
I wonder why they upset you so?

I will answer your question, when you answer mine...I am not going to be easily derailed...
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:31 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Yes, I've been teaching English for 15 years, and maybe that's why I can see so many ambiguities in your statements and questions. But, out of courtesy, I'll do my best to answer what I think you're asking.

My stance on the existence of a god or gods or anything supernatural is one of suspended judgement. All of the proposed evidence for their existence falls apart under scrutiny. I cannot with intellectual honesty say that I know that no such supernatural beings exist. However, my understanding of the world leads me to believe that the odds that there are such things are incredibly small, so small as to be negligible.

That in itself doesn't motivate me to join discussions such as this. It is the aggressive and insulting behavior of theists who want everyone to abandon reason and believe their version of reality. Notice the title of this thread: "Atheists... Your life is pointless."

My question about why those images upset you so was a rhetorical one. No need to answer it.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:37 pm
@FBM,
OK...then we will make this simple then...Do you believe that God is an asshole? Or do you reject that God is an asshole as you reject he exists? (And is not there, and then is impossible for him to be an asshole...)

Do you believe that you know if God is an asshole? Or do you reject that you know if God is an asshole, as you reject he exists but are not positive?

Quote:
My question about why those images upset you so was a rhetorical one. No need to answer it.

It was? Are you sure? OK...then what do you think or believe my answer was/is?
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:39 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
What part of "suspended judgement" do you not understand, Spade? I'll explain the phrase further if you need.

The rhetorical question I posed was a suggestion that you examine your own reactions to those images. I have no idea why you're so upset by them.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:41 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/526230_494776123919541_1664458303_n.png
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:43 pm
@FBM,
I do not need you to explain that for me...I would like you to take the time to answer each question specifically if you are willing to answer them...

If you are willing to concede you will make no judgments because you are unsure about God, or believe you are unsure about God, or do not believe you are sure about God...then I will not ask you those other questions...

Are you willing to concede any of these new questions?

Yes or no...no more games...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:49 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
The rhetorical question I posed was a suggestion that you examine your own reactions to those images. I have no idea why you're so upset by them.

You just told me that you had an idea? Now you are saying that you do not? So you posted them, and asked me because you did not rationally know what you thought my answer "maybe"? Fine...if this is true...tell me what you think my answer "maybe" and I will explain exactly how I think it is correct or incorrect...You make no suspended judgments? Why would you say that it upset me so? And either think it had, or had not...When I hadn't answered them? If this web is true, are you willing to retract that rhetoric since you do not know my answer(s)?

I think atheists weave so many webs they do not even know how to find their own ways back out...
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:54 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Apparently you don't understand the concept of "suspended judgement." It means I don't take the position either that there is or aren't god/gods.

The position I take is that theists who are aggressive about their beliefs present ridiculous arguments in defense of their beliefs. I'm pointing out the ridiculous parts because theists continue to press me to join their belief system on faith, without a single shred of supporting evidence for their favorite deity.

Your version of the question about knowing or not knowing what I believe is an epistemological slippery slope. How does anyone know what they believe? Statements about belief or disbelief are public reports on one's inner mental experiences. How is there any way to prove or disprove anything about another person's inner mental experience? If someone says they believe, disbelieve or suspend judgement, no one else can examine that person's inner mental experience to ascertain whether or not they are lying, deluded or simply mistaken. Therefore, questions about the truth or falsity of self-reports about that inner mental experience are meaningless.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:56 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Where did I claim to know why you're upset at those images?
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 09:59 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
If you can make a sentence including the phrase "make no suspended judgements," then you quite obviously don't understand what it means to suspend judgement. Refusing to make knowledge claims in the absence of conclusive evidence. It means not making a judgement at all, not "making" a "suspended judgement."

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 10:01 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Apparently you don't understand the concept of "suspended judgement." It means I don't take the position either that there is or aren't god/gods.

The position I take is that theists who are aggressive about their beliefs present ridiculous arguments in defense of their beliefs. I'm pointing out the ridiculous parts because theists continue to press me to join their belief system on faith, without a single shred of supporting evidence for their favorite deity.

Your version of the question about knowing or not knowing what I believe is an epistemological slippery slope. How does anyone know what they believe? Statements about belief or disbelief are public reports on one's inner mental experiences. How is there any way to prove or disprove anything about another person's inner mental experience? If someone says they believe, disbelieve or suspend judgement, no one else can examine that person's inner mental experience to ascertain whether or not they are lying, deluded or simply mistaken. Therefore, questions about the truth or falsity of self-reports about that inner mental experience are meaningless.

I win this time...

Do you say this because you believe this? Reject this? Do not know this? Or suspend your judgments about what you have said? Idea Idea Idea 2 Cents

Game, set, match...Rack 'em up...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Sun 31 Mar, 2013 10:05 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Where did I claim to know why you're upset at those images?

I wonder why they upset you so?

You do not think you believe you know if they have upset me or have not? Do you think that they have? Or do you think they have not? You do not make suspended judgments? (rhetoric) Are you saying that you do not know what you believe my feelings are about those images? Would you like to tell me what you may believe, while possibly being incorrect? Or would you like to not tell me, or ask me...and remain unsure?
 

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