Atheists... Your life is pointless

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

I gave you an answer to your question Frank...whether you realize it or not.

No you haven't...and I realize you haven't.

I suspect you realize you haven't also.

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

You asked me a question to explain what I said 2 days ago...I wanted to show you, that you can figure it out on your own...and show you the tools on how to do it...since you asked me...Now you are saying that you want a direct answer to the question, to make a point...and are not interested in the actual answer to my question, because the way you see it may be different than the way I view things...and you just wanted to make a point? and the answer was not important...That is exactly why I wanted to show you that you can figure it out and do not need me...and asked you to post your comment if you honestly wanted to...and asked you what credibility would I be trying to keep/risk loosing, if you thought I have some in saying you like to hear my explanations...but you claimed it is humorous for me to try to explain all of this, while (I guess) a lot of others are more concerned in saying you do not understand, but do not wish to take the time to explain why...

I am going to drop it, because it seems that you, and many others think that what I am doing is wrong...

If you decide to answer the question...answer it. If you decide not to answer it...don't answer it.

But don't pretend that you have and that I am either too ignorant or too much a liar to recognize that you have.

Were you being truthful?

All you have to say is "yes" or "no."

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@spendius,

I'm not sure if this is meant as bait, but....

Spendius wrote:

You can't be doing wrong from an atheistic point of view because your posts are not illegal.

Atheism does not necessitate moral nihilism.

Spendius wrote:

From a Christian point of view you are doing wrong if you depart from the teachings of the Catholic Church and withhold your obedience to it.

This is a very narrow interpretation of "Christianity", many self-professed Catholics would not even agree with it. You might reference Liberation theology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

1 Reply

@MattDavis,

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Atheism does not necessitate moral nihilism.

It does to me. Fear of the law or disgrace is not morality.

I am a bit narrow on this matter.

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@Frank Apisa,

I do not want to answer it any more substantially Frank...Your comment should not have dependence upon what my answer is...or is not...If you honestly wish to post your comment so that we all can discuss what you think...then feel free to post it at anytime...

I do not feel comfortable with you using my answer to try to substantiate whether factual validity/faith is more valid or not and why you feel this way...

If you are also then not interested in actually trying to figure out what my answers are on your own...while you have asked me what my answers are, and why, because you say "you do not know"...and say that you like to listen to my explanations, (and may have credibility) (but may also be trying to preserve it, or risk loosing it, but do not wish to explain to me why you have asked me that specific question)

In other words, I would like you to substantiate the credibility you think I have, or will lose in your views...Or substantiate why you think anyone would chose to do that? And I will comply for you...

Or I would like you to show an interest in why you are basing your comment off of my potential position, and I will comply...

I do not feel comfortable, or like the fact that I think you are doing neither, and using my potential position to then make yours...

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@spendius,

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Fear of the law or disgrace is not morality.

I agree.
That is not morality, that is obedience.
Moral relativism is not the only atheistic moral philosophy.
Moral realativism, in my opinion, is vacuous and self-contradictory.
You don't need to assume a deity for morality, especially if you are using the deity to support another form of obedience.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You win Frank...because I can't stand the hate any longer...and have nothing to hide...all I wanted to do, was to hear you explain why you think my position is relevant...and hear what you thought my answer would be...on your own...and see if you could explain a worthy reason to try to find credibility that is not genuine...etc...

Of course I think it is truthful...and I do not think there is any good reason why someone would post something they did not think was true just to get people to agree with them or like them...etc...If people did not already like them...Or agree with them...

I think if people do not like someone, then I do not think that one comment would change their views...and give credibility...And if people like someone, then I do not think that one comment would destroy their credibility...So I see no reason to ever claim something that someone does not back and have faith in...just to try to get others to think that one has credibility...if it is not genuine...

I was simply trying to show you with evidence that there is no good reason to be bias...and no one should have to conform to anything just for self gratifications from others...Or acceptance, or worthiness...but sadly about 4 or 5 others do not agree with this...and think it is worthy to sooth-say things in order to find purpose...and seem to only be concerned with labels, and how prominent they appear to others...while having no self value or respect...but I can not stand the hate/deception any longer...

What is your comment now Frank?

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@MattDavis,

Well--you have to use something to support obedience to a morality. What do you use if not a Deity?

Would you like everybody to see past the Diety as you do and are, I presume, recommending?

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Don't quit just because someone votes down some of your posts. I don't agree with much that you post, but you have every right to be heard.

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@edgarblythe,

Thank you very much for your support... Wink

...I think there is a lot of merit in what you have said in the ways to view other peoples opinions that may be different than ones own...Or simply to be empathetic...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

You win Frank...because I can't stand the hate any longer..

Not sure where all this "hate" is coming from...but it most assuredly is not coming from me. Not towards you...nor towards anyone else in this forum.

Anyway, you are saying you were truthful when you said you have doubt.

Okay...that means you were incorrect (or not being truthful) when you were saying you were talking to your god...and that you are a messenger for that god...that you knew with certainty the god existed...and when you said you knew you were not being delusional.

Good. That change is welcome progress.

Earlier, I wrote:

Quote:

Was this an honest comment...or is it something you thought is necessary in order to keep credibility in this discussion?

If it is an honest comment...if it is something you will stand as true from this point on...I would like to comment on something you asked earlier of someone else...about the value of skepticism versus "faith."

If it was offered just to maintain credibility, I'll pass.

Now that I have my answer, I will make the comment about the value of skepticism versus “faith.”

“Faith” ultimately is being stone-headed about a guess. “Faith” implies that the individual expressing “faith in x” does not know that “x” is correct…but is committed to insisting it is correct despite the lack of evidence.

Skepticism is acknowledgement of “not knowing”…and not being stone-headed…not insisting that a particular truth be accepted despite the lack of evidence.

When you then commented,

Quote:

What I meant is I was curious as to why an atheist would personally think that factual validity or evidence and such would be a greater aspect to them then faith itself could be...

My response would be…skepticism is by its very nature a more truthful, less stone-headed approach to truth than faith…and therefore there should be no curiosity in you about why atheists (or other non-theists) feel as they do about it.

If you want to discuss this in greater detail, I will entertain your questions, although at some point I may stop you and ask a few of my own. I hope that when it comes my turn, we can cut to the chase a bit more quickly than we did on this last question.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

I want to go on record again that I do not rate or vote on posts at all in either direction...and pay no attention whatever to any votes on my comments or posts. So if there is anything going on in that area...I have nothing to do with it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Okay...that means you were incorrect (or not being truthful) when you were saying you were talking to your god...and that you are a messenger for that god...that you knew with certainty the god existed...and when you said you knew you were not being delusional.

I would not agree with any of this...All that I have attested to is that with faith comes doubt, and with doubt comes faith...

I think that they are both required to make faith what it is...I think that anyone with faith has doubt....and I think that doubt makes faith what it is...I think that anyone who is following faith knows that they think there are things that exist that they can not prove but they believe are there....and I think that anyone with faith goes through periods of doubt...I know I do...but I do not think that because we understand there is doubt...there is no faith...because if that is the case and we can subjectively experience doubt and know it is true, as do others...then everyone also knows there is faith, even if not faithful...and even if it can't be proven...then there is nothing more significant to factual evidence over faith again...because facts need faith to be "proven"...I agree that I do not think I am delusional...and know it...

The rest of everything you have said are just assumptions that I have never said...and do not wish to discuss even in conjunction to your/my views...because it is my personal business...that isn't relevant to discuss for you to express your personal views...on the subject of faith/factual evidence...

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@Frank Apisa,

It occurs to me that popularity vote is kind of counter productive when it comes to creating new ideas. It only ensures that the mediocre of what was available wins out, as there is far between the DaVinchis of this world.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Are you actually saying that you have never said you are a prophet of your god...that your god has spoken to you??????

Are you actually saying that?

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@Cyracuz,

As I am sure you know, Cyracuz...since A2K became A2K...I have agitated for removing the voting feature.

There is no standard criteria for using it. Some use it to vote aye or nay on the content...some to vote on the person...some to vote f0r or against a principle or bent.

It is an absurdity...and anyone paying lots of attention to it (as some here do) is wasting his or her time.

I do not vote for or against anyone...and I would ask that everyone refrain from voting aye on any of m posts. If some want to vote nay...fine.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That is incorrect...I have made statements that I think I am a prophet of God...I have made statements that I think God talks to me...

But I also think that faith is the product of rejecting doubts...Do you disagree? What is faith to you? I think that once one has faith, they experience doubt...and when they put aside doubt, and accept faith, then their faith becomes stronger...I think they are both necessary to have faith, and to have doubt...

I have never said I do not have doubts...I never said that a prophet (etc) (believer) would not be tempted with doubts...I never said that faith could not be a product of rejecting doubt...I never said that I can't be incorrect about what doubt is...etc...

Do you think that doubt is because one strives to prove something factual? Or because they reject faith/God itself/himself?

If you think that doubt is because people try to prove something factual, and do not try to reject faith...Why would they have to call it doubt or skepticism...etc? And not call it an embracing of science, math, etc in order to validate assertions, or skeptic claims? Do you think it is possible they may reject science and math one day?

In other words, if there is no rejection of faith or God taking place in being a skeptic, then why does one have to reject anything?, Rather than claiming the things that they try to factually prove? Validate? Assert? etc...using the methods (math, science, etc) that they do?

What would be a good reason to claim to be skeptic, or one with doubts? Apposed to someone who embraces math and science to "prove" or "validate" assertions that they may or may not believe?

Can you give me a good reason why you think that anyone would?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Why can't one claim they try to factually validate everything they can? And have nothing to do with faith, and doubts...(Examples: Scienistismist, Questioner, Validationist, Assertionist) Over I have a rejection of beliefs, but try to factually validate doubt/skepticism? Challenge thoughts or beliefs (theism's) directly apposed to skepticism? (atheist/atheism)

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@Frank Apisa,

What about the -- It might be or might not

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@tenderfoot,

Exactly! Frank, how is being an agnostic not a balance of faith and doubt itself? How is it an actual irreligious position? How are believers, agnostics, and atheists not propositions of faiths and doubts that one side values faith over the others? One side values doubts over the others? One side values both, or neither over anything else?

I think that faith is a product of rejecting doubt...

I think that most will claim that faith can not be factually proven, and why it is considered faith...

I think that everyone with faith battles doubts...

Now can you explain to me how doubts (validations of factual evidence) disproves faith itself? If factual evidence is of a higher value than faith is...And explain how doubts do not battle faith itself? If doubts are not a product of faith...

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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