Why does the christian cross defraud?

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Nominal christians insist that Jesus was executed on a cross, despite the fact that the Greek words often translated 'cross', stauros and xulou, actually mean 'tree' or 'timber' or 'wood'. Why is this important, you ask? Well, the mistranslation is no where near as important as the fact that christians everywhere place incredible emphasis on the image of the cross, even worshipping it as sacred.

But where did the worship of the cross originate? Why, in the pagan religions dating back to Babylon.

Quote:

"From its simplicity of form, the cross has been used both as a religious symbol and as an ornament, from the dawn of man's civilization. Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt have all yielded numberless examples, while numerous instances, dating from the later Stone Age to Christian times, have been found in nearly every part of Europe. The use of the cross as a religious symbol in pre-Christian times, and among non-Christian peoples, may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many cases it was connected with some form of nature worship." (The Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, 1910, volume 7, page 506)

http://spl.haxial.net/religion/cross/cross_glyph.jpg

From The Cross Revealed, By Crichton E. M. MIller
The cross was worshipped by pagans long before the death of christ.

http://www.acrimony.org/images/ankh1.jpg

The ankh, a cross used in some churches, is particularly interesting. The loop, shaped like an egg, represents the womb, while the Tau shaped cross is a representation of the male phallus.

So, Jesus death on a cross or tree notwithstanding, why would people worship a pagan fertility symbol used as an instrument of murder? I mean, if your best friend had been shot to death, would you wear an image of a gun around your neck?

The christian preachers have much to explain.

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99 % of Christian practices and symbols derive from pagan sources. So what? The point really isn't where a particular symbol originated (there is nothing new under the sun) but what personal meaning it has for the person who uses that symbol. The celebration of Christmas and all the practices attendant to it go way, way, way back in time to various pagan celebrations of the Winter Solstice. But if the practicing Christian says that he/she is doing these things in celebration of the birth of Jesus, then that's was Christmas is for him/her. The same is true of the cross. The fact that Moses probably knew all about the ankh sign has nothing whatever to do with the Christian reverence for the Cross, whether or not it actually was the instrument of execution. A symbol can have wildly varying significance for different people.

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You would be right, of course, if the practice of idolatry had not been condemned by God, and if the veneration of pagan symbols, such as that of the god Tammuz, had not been particularly singled out as something detestable to God. (Ezekiel 8:13-17)

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What if your friend was shot with a hand gun in order to pay for the Sin of all humankind only to be resurrected on the third day following and elight to Heaven where he will never die?

The cross is more than an instrument of death to Christians. It represents the sacrifice of God, giving his only begotten Son, etc. etc. If you are a believer then the cross represents the ultimate sacrifice proving God's love for humanity.

As for it being ripped off from the Pagans, well, the Pagans took all the cool symbols early on.

Historical, the Roman's did like to nail people to crosses. they are easy to set up and take down and you can line them up in neat little rows. Not so sure about trees.

Kind Regards

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jstark wrote:

What if your friend was shot with a hand gun in order to pay for the Sin of all humankind only to be resurrected on the third day following and elight to Heaven where he will never die?

The cross is more than an instrument of death to Christians. It represents the sacrifice of God, giving his only begotten Son, etc. etc. If you are a believer then the cross represents the ultimate sacrifice proving God's love for humanity.

Right, well part of what neo has stated is that cross worship was around before Jesus.

Quote:

As for it being ripped off from the Pagans, well, the Pagans took all the cool symbols early on.

Historical, the Roman's did like to nail people to crosses. they are easy to set up and take down and you can line them up in neat little rows. Not so sure about trees.

Kind Regards

This is where Neo falls short in my opinion. It's fairly well recognized that Jesus was executed by crucifixion. the Romans were big on crucifixion, utilizing a pair of wooden beams formed into a cross. I doubt they made an exception for jesus's case and just nailed him up to a cypress. Confused

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jstark wrote:

What if your friend was shot with a hand gun in order to pay for the Sin of all humankind only to be resurrected on the third day following and elight to Heaven where he will never die?

The cross is more than an instrument of death to Christians. It represents the sacrifice of God, giving his only begotten Son, etc. etc. If you are a believer then the cross represents the ultimate sacrifice proving God's love for humanity.

As for it being ripped off from the Pagans, well, the Pagans took all the cool symbols early on.

Historical, the Roman's did like to nail people to crosses. they are easy to set up and take down and you can line them up in neat little rows. Not so sure about trees.

Kind Regards

An image, nevertheless. And the sign of Tammuz, to boot.

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Questioner wrote:

jstark wrote:
What if your friend was shot with a hand gun in order to pay for the Sin of all humankind only to be resurrected on the third day following and elight to Heaven where he will never die?

The cross is more than an instrument of death to Christians. It represents the sacrifice of God, giving his only begotten Son, etc. etc. If you are a believer then the cross represents the ultimate sacrifice proving God's love for humanity.

Right, well part of what neo has stated is that cross worship was around before Jesus.

Quote:
As for it being ripped off from the Pagans, well, the Pagans took all the cool symbols early on.

Historical, the Roman's did like to nail people to crosses. they are easy to set up and take down and you can line them up in neat little rows. Not so sure about trees.

Kind Regards

This is where Neo falls short in my opinion. It's fairly well recognized that Jesus was executed by crucifixion. the Romans were big on crucifixion, utilizing a pair of wooden beams formed into a cross. I doubt they made an exception for jesus's case and just nailed him up to a cypress.

Not having been there, we can rely only on the scriptural account which uses words usually translated as stake, or tree, or timber,which was also used as a means of execution. My point was more to question the nominal christian's veneration of the symbol, a clear violation of God's law.

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A definition of note:

Wikipedia

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neologist wrote:

My point was more to question the nominal christian's veneration of the symbol, a clear violation of God's law.

Ahh, I didn't get that from the original post.

Regarding idolatry and graven images I too would like to hear some explanations of that. Especially from Catholics with all of their life like statues of Jesus bleeding on the cross and the Madonna in a bath tub.

Kind Regards

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The swastika is another ancient symbol that has taken on an entirely different meaning since World War 2. It is a common symbol here in the States, esp. used by the Navajo. It dates back to prehistoric times.

As Merry Andrew said, there is nothing new under the sun. Symbols have always been and will always be used even in the face of prohibition.

I think religions have always appropriated symbols; just as Christian churches built on top of older pagan churches, purposely obliterating the old, but claiming many of the old practices and symbols as their own.

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Diane, I thought of the Swastika too.

Neo, the Catholics have a lot of explaining to do Laughing

So true - and I'm not just talking about this cross business! Catholism is smack full of materialism; but that's the only thing that ever got me to go to church! Such beautiful churches they have. Beautiful everything!

I don't think it necessarily cancels out the honest faith of some of the members. Can you think of one religion that does no wrong?

The cross is a deeply powerful image: people respond to it. I doubt as many people would respond to a line like this "l" to represent a stake! Symbolism is a powerful tool to inspiring faith and stirring up emotion. Using a lot of symbolism does not necessarily make it idol-worship.

BTW: I'm not picking on the Catholics. Razz

It is still the religion I am most comfortable with; and when I walk in that church I can be brought to tears. Any religion is valuable to some degree.

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Diane wrote:

I think religions have always appropriated symbols; just as Christian churches built on top of older pagan churches, purposely obliterating the old, but claiming many of the old practices and symbols as their own.

All this would be really peachy were it not for the fact that God strictly prohibited such practices. (Exodus 20:4,5; 1Corinthians 10:20)

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Two things:

1) I do not worship the cross. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

2) jstark, can you tell me who told you that the cross is an instrument of death (re Christians)? The cross represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Two things:

1) I do not worship the cross. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

2) jstark, can you tell me who told you that the cross is an instrument of death (re Christians)? The cross represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Do you wear a cross around your neck?

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I often do. I have crosses in my house and I have one in my truck. I don't worship the cross. I keep them because they remind me of savior.

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Momma Angel wrote:

2) jstark, can you tell me who told you that the cross is an instrument of death (re Christians)? The cross represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Roman use of the cross to kill criminals is what I am refereing to. Crosses were assembled for the purpose of death. Curiously, if the Romans had stoned Jesus to death would Christians wear a rock around there neck?

Kind Regards

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jstark wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
2) jstark, can you tell me who told you that the cross is an instrument of death (re Christians)? The cross represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Roman use of the cross to kill criminals is what I am refereing to. Crosses were assembled for the purpose of death. Curiously, if the Romans had stoned Jesus to death would Christians wear a rock around there neck?

Kind Regards

Ok, I understand about the instrument of death thing.

If Christ were stoned to death instead of crucified, I doubt it would have the attention that it does. But, I can't answer you about the rock around my neck. I don't know.

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If you look at what the cross represented in pagan religions and how offensive it was to God, how can you assume that because Jesus may have been executed on a cross, (it most likely was a stake) the cross suddenly became acceptable?

It's a phallic symbol, for goodness sake.

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neologist wrote:

If you look at what the cross represented in pagan religions and how offensive it was to God, how can you assume that because Jesus may have been executed on a cross, (it most likely was a stake) the cross suddenly became acceptable?

It's a phallic symbol, for goodness sake.

Well, how phallic is a stake? Shocked

All of your Biblical references are Old Testament. Those are the laws for God's Chosen People, i.e. the Jews. Christians are not God's Chosen People so maybe the laws don't apply. As Momma Angel notes, she does not worship the cross, it's just a reminder, like a yamaka. Although knowing some Catholics, I do have questions about where the line is.

Kind Regards

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jstark wrote:

neologist wrote:
If you look at what the cross represented in pagan religions and how offensive it was to God, how can you assume that because Jesus may have been executed on a cross, (it most likely was a stake) the cross suddenly became acceptable?

It's a phallic symbol, for goodness sake.

Well, how phallic is a stake?

Veneration of false gods and their images was more than a small part of the law.
"God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

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Why does the christian cross defraud?

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