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Why does the christian cross defraud?

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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:26 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
The cross is merely a symbol. It is NOT the object of worship. Christ Crucified IS the object of worship. Anything can be considered an idol if you give more attention to it then you do to God.
I see your point, MA. Except many 'Christians' do worship the cross. Things need to be placed in their proper perspective.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:33 pm
Laughing
jstark wrote:
As for it being ripped off from the Pagans, well, the Pagans took all the cool symbols early on.

Historical, the Roman's did like to nail people to crosses. they are easy to set up and take down and you can line them up in neat little rows. Not so sure about trees.
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tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 08:19 pm
Re: Why does the christian cross defraud?
neologist wrote:
http://www.acrimony.org/images/ankh1.jpg
The ankh, a cross used in some churches, is particularly interesting. The loop, shaped like an egg, represents the womb, while the Tau shaped cross is a representation of the male phallus.




Hi neologist,

I hate to tell you this but he's going in backwards.

It seems to me that this subject of yours is peculiar to the Jehovah's Witnesses. I may be wrong but it stirs my memory.

Your worldview seems to be fair game in this thread. You've made unambiguous statements about how you know the mind of God. You know what is detestable to him, what is a clear violation of God's law, and what is strictly prohibited. From where do you get that assuredness?

You've made the statement that "my eyes are wider open than most" [when it comes to interpreting the Bible]. Are you in a select group, perhaps 144,000?

Are you a JW?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 10:05 pm
I've answered that (the last question) in the affirmative many times. And it is true that the information came to me first through the Watchtower Society. However, a Google search of 'ankh phallus' will reveal that the concept is historically verifiable.
Example:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1623/ankh.html

I say my eyes are wider open than most only because I have the scars and bruises to show for it.
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Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 11:17 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Two things:

2) jstark, can you tell me who told you that the cross is an instrument of death (re Christians)? The cross represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.



I MUST FULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

BAPTISM represents the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, not the CROSS.

SORRY EVERYONE BUT I MUST AGREE WITH NEO.
Christains put to much emphasis on the cross.
They also put to much emphasis on the manger.

Who cares about the cross, stake, tree, whatever.
All I care about is that my GOD came down from heaven took the form of a man and died for my sins, and washed them away in his blood. Then by rising the 3rd day he beat death and hell, and forever holds the keys to them.
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Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 11:20 pm
neologist wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
The cross is merely a symbol. It is NOT the object of worship. Christ Crucified IS the object of worship. Anything can be considered an idol if you give more attention to it then you do to God.
I see your point, MA. Except many 'Christians' do worship the cross. Things need to be placed in their proper perspective.


I have never met a single christian except catholics who WORSHIP THE CROSS.

Sorry but I must fully disagree with you here.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 03:28 am
Scott777ab wrote:
I have never met a single christian except catholics who WORSHIP THE CROSS.

Well, thats only like, half of the Christians around, if not more, worldwide..
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 04:28 am
Scott,

I, for one Christian, do not worship the cross. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified on it.

Could you tell me how you think people worship the cross and not the Saviour? I have heard people say that Christians also worship the Bible and not God. The cross, the Bible, etc., are all parts of God and the plan of salvation. I am not understanding how you feel the focus is not on that and is instead on the cross for some Christians.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 05:12 am
What about the worshipping of the Virgin Mary ? its not just the cross saint worshipping is becoming stronger and stronger.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 05:23 am
I know that Roman Catholic, Orthodox and (some of the) Anglican Christians venerate Mary, but worshipping would be against the most doctrines (at least in the Roman Catholic Church).

Same with saints.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 05:30 am
Then i think many churches should make this point more clear to their followers and some don't seem to be able to tell the difference between venerate & worship
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 06:01 am
BDV,

I have to agree with you there. I do know a Catholic who does know the difference between venerate and worship. I do have to admit though, he is the only Catholic I know that knows the difference.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 09:31 am
Momma Angel wrote:
BDV,

I have to agree with you there. I do know a Catholic who does know the difference between venerate and worship. I do have to admit though, he is the only Catholic I know that knows the difference.


Which says a lot about the Catholics you know. But little more.

(For instance, all procession towns are called - in whatever language is spoken there - "veneration of places", since the very beginning [which is sometimes more than 1300 years].)
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 10:35 am
With regard to Jesus, words like love, loyalty and respect apply. Insofar as veneration means love, loyalty and respect, I would agree.

Veneration that includes images can hardly avoid the label of idolatry
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najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 11:06 am
And we have come to the point where the byzantines had quite spirited discussions over about 1300 years ago or so. Damn iconoclasts!
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 11:22 am
Momma Angel wrote:
BDV,

I have to agree with you there. I do know a Catholic who does know the difference between venerate and worship. I do have to admit though, he is the only Catholic I know that knows the difference.


Frankly, in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't much matter if the "one" you know of is the only one in the entire world...because it really doesn't make a rat's ass whether there actually is a difference...or if there is, whether ANYONE could tell the difference.

What could make a difference for our society is if "American conservative Christians"..an OXYMORON OF GALACTIC PROPORTIONS...would pay some small amount of attention to what Jesus actually taught and less to the bullshyt which seems to dominate their agenda.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 11:32 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
BDV,

I have to agree with you there. I do know a Catholic who does know the difference between venerate and worship. I do have to admit though, he is the only Catholic I know that knows the difference.


Frankly, in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't much matter if the "one" you know of is the only one in the entire world...because it really doesn't make a rat's ass whether there actually is a difference...or if there is, whether ANYONE could tell the difference.

What could make a difference for our society is if "American conservative Christians"..an OXYMORON OF GALACTIC PROPORTIONS...would pay some small amount of attention to what Jesus actually taught and less to the bullshyt which seems to dominate their agenda.
Yeah, what you said. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Good seeing you again Frank. How's the golf game?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 12:22 pm
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
BDV,

I have to agree with you there. I do know a Catholic who does know the difference between venerate and worship. I do have to admit though, he is the only Catholic I know that knows the difference.


Frankly, in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't much matter if the "one" you know of is the only one in the entire world...because it really doesn't make a rat's ass whether there actually is a difference...or if there is, whether ANYONE could tell the difference.

What could make a difference for our society is if "American conservative Christians"..an OXYMORON OF GALACTIC PROPORTIONS...would pay some small amount of attention to what Jesus actually taught and less to the bullshyt which seems to dominate their agenda.
Yeah, what you said. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Good seeing you again Frank. How's the golf game?


Could be better...but I guess any golfer feels that way no matter how good he/she is shooting.

Good seeing you, Neo. Glad you agreed with my comment up above.

I honestly think the best gift our Christian brethren could give to our country...would be to adopt the philosophy of Jesus...rather than the philosophy of whomever they have adopted in substitution.

The substitution philosophy would not be more out of synch with the philosophy of Jesus if that bizarre eventuality were actually its purpose.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 12:24 pm
Frank,

It would be nice if you would actually acknowledge that not all Christians are as you appear to paint them. Yes, the Religious Right in the media are a problem, but they are not EVERY Christian.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 12:32 pm
Frank. What is it that you think prevents the world from adopting Jesus' 'philosophy'?

Er, guess. Sorry
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