Why Austria is right about Blocking Turkey into EU

old europe wrote:

Lord Ellpus wrote:
old europe wrote:
Can you recall seeing Asiatic whores around, though?

....

No, wait, I shouldn't ask you that....

I had a blindfold on one time, so I couldn't swear to it, but.....

Wait! And that was in Vienna???

Buggered if I know, if the truth be told. It was somewhere foreign, and I was very, very drunk at the time, that's all I can tell you.

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crikey. you woudn't be that guy i bumped into in that cafe once...actually....know what.... never you mind...

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Very interesting indeed, thank you for your substantive contributions to a subject of vital interest to Europe, and good-night.

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<John Cleese voice>

......and now for something completely different.

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Reading along. Asiatic hooligans, will they be able to stand up to the soccer folks? I swear, I wish all war could just settle down into jousting tourneys and orange hurling battles and yes, horse races in medieval streets.

My concern with eu expansion is not that I don't want any one or three or four or eight countries to join - but I worry about the unwieldiness of bigness for reasons I could probably list but the word unwieldy tends to cover. Anybody think of a secondary grouping?

Ach, I always see the world as forming and reforming, like a bunch of amoebae. People like to associate and they like to be independent of association, always a push - pull over time. Or, more complex than that, association-independence-reassociation with different parties-independence, and so on.

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Dear Mr/Mrs Ossobuco is it possible you do not know how many millions of Europeans have died in defending our lands against Islamic hordes??

It is not only at the gates of Vienna it is also in France at Poitiers and in Spain which had to battle for centuries and many other places plus more recently in Christian (Catholic) Croatia and Christian (Orthodox) Serbia when the Bosnian Moslems with Turkey's help tried to create an Islamic state in the EU.

How many more millions must die while you joke on this site???

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Dear Mrs Heller, is it possible you do not know how many millions of people have died in defending their lands against armies led by an Austrian madman?? Blahblahblah....

Apart from that, it is definitely quite interesting what happened in 1529, or in 1683. And it's not only interesting what happened at that time in Europe, but what happened around the world as well. The European nations were expanding their ranges of influence all around the world - to North and South America, to Africa and Asia.

Millions of people were slaughtered by the invading European hordes all around the world, mostly for quite earthly goods, but often in the name of religion as well.

It seems there's quite a number of reasons that would let you doubt whether it would be such a good idea to offer Turkey EU membership. But I'd recommend to rather not refer to historical events in medieval Europe in order to show just how evil other people are.

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In addition to being a non-sequitur Mr/Mrs Old Europe your post is also inaccurate

It might be of some relevance IF the EU were TRYING to join the Turkic nations' associations, or ASEAN, or the African Union, or Latin American groupings --- and as to "good" vs "evil" ????

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Louise_R_Heller wrote:

In addition to being a non-sequitur Mr/Mrs Old Europe your post is also inaccurate

You'll certainly explain where my post is inaccurate, won't you.

Back on topic. You're basically saying that the EU shouldn't allow Turkey membership because the invaded some European countries more than 300 years ago.

Do you have any other, maybe substantial, reasons for your aversion towards Turkish membership?

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I managed to joke about your wild use of the word hordes, Ms. Heller, as did a few other people. I actually don't find your blanketing large numbers of individuals in a frightening swath as funny.

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Mr/Mrs Ossobuco

My posts refer to a massive TRAGEDY over many CENTURIES making MILLIONS OF EUROPEAN DEAD WOUNDED or DISPLACED.... and...you say you do not find them FUNNY????

Thank you for that much consideration!!!!

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What's your point?

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Yes, I don't find them funny although I dealt with your posts by using word play. I find your posts generally verbally assaultive to millions of people.

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Plus - this is a tangent to other pros and cons re this particular enlargement of the EU.

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Louise_R_Heller wrote:

Mr/Mrs Ossobuco

My posts refer to a massive TRAGEDY over many CENTURIES making MILLIONS OF EUROPEAN DEAD WOUNDED or DISPLACED.... and...you say you do not find them FUNNY????

Thank you for that much consideration!!!!

Your posts include the word "hordes" which, IMO, is derrogatory and inflammatory. They also keep pointing out that Europe should be eternally grateful to Austria for keeping these "hordes" out, on two previous occasions, around about the time that the potato was first discovered, and the Spanish Inquisition was removing fingernails.

......and what I find funny/disturbing (I haven't quite made up my mind yet)... you seem to be serious about this, getting all huffy with any responses that point towards humour, or in any way showing disagreement.

My usual reaction when first confronted with apparent pomposity is to laugh it off, hence my earlier posts.....but now, I'm not so sure.

If you wish to remember long distant history so vividly, and use it as relevant in modern day argument, please also be sure to include 20th century European events in your evidence.

After all, you didn't start by thanking the Americans, Russians and Brits etc., in saving you from the Nazis, did you. How many deaths did they cause?

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To be serious - I really had a great laugh reading all these responses - Lord, it's a hard job to discuss history with someone who wasn't taught but by Nazi school books.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

To be serious - I really had a great laugh reading all these responses - Lord, it's a hard job to discuss history with someone who wasn't taught but by Nazi school books.

It would have been a stronger argument Walter, if the massacre of the Armenians was used.....even though it was still quite a long time ago. Far more recent than what has been put forward as a valid reason by Ms Heller, though.

.........Getting back on track, I feel that Turkey should not be admitted at this time, as:
1. The present EU has got to sort itself out first, and properly integrate its recent new members, take stock of the present situation re. whether or not to have a constitution, and thrash out some sort of definite direction for the future.

2. Turkey is a long way from meeting the requirements of a free, democratic nation. Until it does, whether it finds it humiliating or not, it should not be allowed to join. If it doesn't like that set of conditions, or if their "pride" is being sorely tested in being told to achieve that goal, then they probably should look elsewhere for trading partners that more suit their ideaology.

3. If Turkey IS accepted, then the borders of the EU would join up with the borders of Iran and Syria. This potential flashpoint/security risk should be digested very carefully before any future decision is made.

What happened to the Greek vote in all of this? It surprises me that they have gone along with the idea...............

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

What happened to the Greek vote in all of this? It surprises me that they have gone along with the idea...............

The discussions already had been months ago - it only became a new topic due to the 'Vienna Waltz' by the Austrian government.

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Two quoatations from today's Independent

Quote:

The long and winding road to unity

* 1951 France, Germany, the Benelux states and Italy sign a treaty to establish the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC).

* 1957 Signing the Treaty of Rome the six ECSC members set up the European Economic Community (EEC), a customs union for free move- ment of capital and labour.

* 1973 Britain, Denmark and Ireland join the EEC.

* 1981 Greece joins the EEC.

* 1986 Portugal and Spain join and the European flag is unveiled.

* 1991 The European Union emerges from the Maastricht treaty, which paves the way for a monetary union. The treaty comes into effect two years later.

* 1995 The Schengen pact relaxes border controls as Austria, Finland and Sweden join the EU.

* 2002 The euro, the single currency, is launched in 12 participating states. The UK, Sweden and Denmark stay out.

* 2004 Latvia, Hungary

And re Turkey:

Quote:

Last night's deal marks only the beginning of a lengthy and difficult path for the Turks towards EU membership.

Formal negotiations will stretch out over more than a decade, and Turkey will have to meet rigorous standards laid down in more than 80,000 pages of text. To qualify for membership Ankara will have to close agreements with the EU over 35 different areas of policy.

To do that, it will have to convince both the European Commission and a committee of representatives from each of the member states that it has complied with EU requirements.

That may be no easy task since several member states are likely to take a tougher line with Turkey than with previous enlargements. In addition to Austria, a possible change of government in Germany is likely to lead to a harder position.

Moreover, the pledge by France and Austria to hold referendums before giving final approval for Turkey to join the EU poses another huge obstacle.

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
To be serious - I really had a great laugh reading all these responses - Lord, it's a hard job to discuss history with someone who wasn't taught but by Nazi school books.

It would have been a stronger argument Walter, if the massacre of the Armenians was used.....even though it was still quite a long time ago. Far more recent than what has been put forward as a valid reason by Ms Heller, though.

.........Getting back on track, I feel that Turkey should not be admitted at this time, as:
1. The present EU has got to sort itself out first, and properly integrate its recent new members, take stock of the present situation re. whether or not to have a constitution, and thrash out some sort of definite direction for the future.

2. Turkey is a long way from meeting the requirements of a free, democratic nation. Until it does, whether it finds it humiliating or not, it should not be allowed to join. If it doesn't like that set of conditions, or if their "pride" is being sorely tested in being told to achieve that goal, then they probably should look elsewhere for trading partners that more suit their ideaology.

3. If Turkey IS accepted, then the borders of the EU would join up with the borders of Iran and Syria. This potential flashpoint/security risk should be digested very carefully before any future decision is made.

What happened to the Greek vote in all of this? It surprises me that they have gone along with the idea...............

1. Yep. Exactly.
2. That's what the membership talks are for, as far as I understand it??? Like, conditions Turkey would have to meet and so on? I agree that it's still a long way for Turkey to actually become a member, even though the talks have been opened now.
3. That's what I was trying to get to earlier on this thread.....

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Why Austria is right about Blocking Turkey into EU

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