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Why Austria is right about Blocking Turkey into EU

 
 
Sat 1 Oct, 2005 03:03 am
I am interested to see what secular liberal Europeans think about potentially letting in an increasingly Islamist nation into your union? This nation still has honor killings, forced marriages, oppressive practices against religious and ethnic minorities as well. Is that what Europe is to become when Turkey become the most Populous member of "Europe"??

Here are some more facts for you to ponder.


http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=papers&code=05-D_49


Quote:




Turkey is awash with billions of dollars in what is known as "green money," apparently emanating from funds Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf states withdrew from the United States after 9/11. U.S. policy-makers are concerned that this unaccountable cash is being laundered in Turkey, then used to finance businesses and generate new revenue streams for Islamofascist terrorism. At the very least, everything else on Erdogan's Islamist agenda is being lubricated by these resources.


Turkey's traditionally secular educational system is being steadily supplanted by madrassa-style "imam hattip" schools and other institutions where students are taught only the Koran and its interpretation according to the Islamofascists. The prime minister is himself an imam hattip school graduate and has championed lowering the age at which children can be subjected to their form of radical religious indoctrination from 12 years old to 4. And in 2005, experts expect 1,215,000 Turkish students to graduate from such schools.


The products of such an education are ill-equipped to do much besides implementing the Islamist program of Erdogan's AKP party. Tens of thousands of them are being given government jobs, replacing experienced, secular bureaucrats with ideologically reliable theo-apparatchiks. Four thousand others are packing Turkey's secular courts, transforming them into instruments of Shari'a religious law.


As elsewhere, religious intolerance is a hallmark of Erdogan's creeping Islamofascist puscht in Turkey. Roughly a third of the Turkish population is a minority known as Alevis. They observe a strain of the Muslim faith that retains some of the traditions of Turkey's ancient religions. Islamist Sunnis like Erdogan and his Saudi Wahhabi sponsors regard the Alevis as "apostates" and "hypocrites" and are subjecting them to increasing discrimination and intimidation. Other minorities, notably Turkey's Jews, know they are likely to be next in line for such treatment - a far cry from the tolerant traditions of the Ottoman era.


In the name of internationally mandated "reform" of Turkey's banking system, the government is seizing the assets and operations of banks run by businessmen associated with the political opposition. It has gone so far as to defy successive rulings by Turkey's supreme court disallowing one such expropriation. The AKP-dominated parliament has enacted legislation that allows even distant relatives of the owners to be prosecuted for alleged wrong-doing. Among the beneficiaries of such shakedowns have been so-called "Islamic banks" tied to Saudi Arabia, some of whose senior officers now hold top jobs in the Erdogan government.


Grabbing assets - or threatening to do so - has allowed the government effectively to take control of the Turkish media, as well. Consolidation of the industry in hands friendly to (or at least cowed by) the Islamists and self-censorship of reporters, lest they depart from the party line, have essentially denied prominent outlets to any contrary views. The risks of deviating is clear from the recently announced prosecution of Turkey's most acclaimed novelist, Orhan Parmuk, for "denigrating Turks and Turkey" by affirming in a Swiss publication allegations of past Turkish genocidal attacks on Kurds and Armenians.



This data point is perhaps an indicator of the Islamists' progress towards also transforming the traditional guarantors of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy of a secular, pro-Western Muslim state: Turkey's armed forces. Matters have been made worse by Erdogan's skillful manipulation of popular interest in the European bid to keep the military from serving as a control rod in Turkish politics.



At the very least, over time, the cumulative effect of having the conscript-based Turkish army obliged to fill its ranks with products of an increasingly Islamist-dominated educational system cannot be positive for either the Europeans or the Free World beyond. Especially as Erdogan seeks to implement what has been dubbed a "zero-problem" policy towards neighboring Iran and Syria, the military's historical check on the gravitational pull towards Islamofascism is likely to recede.
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Trupolitik
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 03:35 am
What? Should Europe just be tolerant of this intolerance, and open the immigration flood gates?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 09:50 am
On 3 October 2005, membership negotiations are scheduled to be opened with Turkey, which has been an associate member of the EU since 1963 and an official candidate since 1999.

The decision on 17 December 2004 by the European Council was confirmed by the European heads of state and government on 17 June. On 29 June, the Commission presented its negotiating framework to Ankara.
0 Replies
 
Trupolitik
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 02:56 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
On 3 October 2005, membership negotiations are scheduled to be opened with Turkey, which has been an associate member of the EU since 1963 and an official candidate since 1999.

The decision on 17 December 2004 by the European Council was confirmed by the European heads of state and government on 17 June. On 29 June, the Commission presented its negotiating framework to Ankara.



You do not have the complete news. it seems Austria is standing up for the people's wishes all across Europe...and that is Turkey should be admitted as something less than a full member. As we have seen in the EU ratification elections there is a WIDE gulf between the Eu ministers and the people of Europe.


http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=67485222&p=674855z4


Quote:

European Union foreign ministers were preparing for a last-ditch attempt today to persuade Austria to drop its objections to starting membership negotiations with Turkey.

The historic talks have long been planned to start tomorrow in Luxembourg, but are now in disarray due to last-minute reservations from Austria.

Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik was expected to maintain her country's position at today's working dinner for the 25 foreign ministers in Luxembourg.

She said ahead of those talks that her country's position reflected wider concerns among Europeans about the EU's ability to take in a predominantly Muslim and largely poor country of about 70 million.

Austria has refused to support the EU's negotiating mandate with Turkey, demanding Ankara be offered a lesser partnership instead of full membership.

All 25 EU nations have to agree on a negotiating mandate before talks with Turkey can begin.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 03:15 pm
Trupolitik wrote:
You do not have the complete news.


I doubt that deeply. (Besides others, I get 8 Austrian newspapers completely.)


You might have o´veread it, but I was only referring to signed treaties, signed by all 25 EU member countries, including Austria.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 03:20 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Trupolitik wrote:
You do not have the complete news.


I doubt that deeply.


That was funny. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 03:27 pm
Trupolitik wrote:
it seems Austria is standing up for the people's wishes all across Europe...


THAT would be funny, because I thaught to live in a parliamentary democracy, where I and my cocitizens elected OUR parliament as well as OUR MEP's.
And I really didn't get the news that we changed our Basic Law and now Austria is representing us.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2005 03:58 pm
Hallo?? The results from Dresden election are in now and Frau Merkel won that seat also so whom is Mr Joschka Fischer representing please???

Germany and Austria and all the other countries of Europe do not want Asiatics to join, now is that clear???
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 12:04 am
M;rs. Merkel didn't win the seat - she's got hers already a fortnight ago - but the CDU candidate.

Fischer is the (aczing) foreign minister of Germany.

In parliament, he represents his constituency as well as he is amember of the Green fraction.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:36 am
Austria has taken over the role of spokesperson for all of Europe??? Who knew?
0 Replies
 
Trupolitik
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:48 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Trupolitik wrote:
it seems Austria is standing up for the people's wishes all across Europe...


THAT would be funny, because I thaught to live in a parliamentary democracy, where I and my cocitizens elected OUR parliament as well as OUR MEP's.
And I really didn't get the news that we changed our Basic Law and now Austria is representing us.



Arent you a little old to be so sarcastic and pedantic?


This is what I was talking about. Of course seeing that you have decided to set yourself in opposition to me I am sure you try to find a "technical" argument instead of just saying outright what you have a problem with.



http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1178199

Quote:

A poll released in Vienna on Sunday said 73 percent of Austrians think cultural differences between Turkey and the EU are too great to warrant granting Turkey membership.

Across the EU, that view is held by 54 percent, according to the poll published by the Austrian news agency. No margin of error was given.
0 Replies
 
Trupolitik
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:49 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
Austria has taken over the role of spokesperson for all of Europe??? Who knew?


People who read the polls.

Shocked
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:08 am
Trupolitik wrote:

Arent you a little old to be so sarcastic and pedantic?

[...]

So the question wether I have the complete news seems to be solved. :wink:

This is what I was talking about. Of course seeing that you have decided to set yourself in opposition to me I am sure you try to find a "technical" argument instead of just saying outright what you have a problem with.


Seems more that you are far to young to understand political and legal features.

I've neither decided to set myself in opposition to you (as far as I remember, this has been the first time I read any response by you) nor am I trying to find technical arguments - just and only quoting reporting about facts.


I do have problems with anyone or/and any country (including my own), when agreements are broken, especially, when this happens due to populistic reasons.



re Austria it is interesting that they opposed the very most against the so-called eastern enlargement.
And now, they are quite qiet about their previous 'engagement', since Austria is the country getting the most of it (regarding the previous 15 EU countries). (Actually, Austria completely did very fine within its now 10 years membership in the EU.)
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:16 am
Turks voting for Christmas?

bookmark
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:17 am
Actually, besides Austria, EU-member states as well as all RU organs favour the entry of Turkey.

However, public opinion in most EU countries appears, with varying degrees of intensity, to oppose Turkish membership.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40861000/gif/_40861344_turkey_support_gra203.gif
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:49 am
Jack Straw is very annoyed with the Austrians for blocking Turkish membership. He says it will only increase the division between "Christian" Europe and Islam. This would be true had it been possible to make matters worse. But as Mr Straw and the British government are in part responsible for bringing about a state of war between "Christian" Europe, and Muslims everywhere, its hard to avoid a sense of irony.

I've changed my mind on Turkey. The country is too big, too poor and not part of Europe anyway. Hard to say but true.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:18 am
Mr Hinteler, you say:

"I do have problems with anyone or/and any country (including my own), when agreements are broken, especially, when this happens due to populistic reasons. "

This is known as DEMOCRACY Mr. Hinteler.

Austria de facto represents all EU peoples, all 25 countries on this subject -- please read your OWN charts!!!
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:22 am
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Mr Hinteler, you say:

"I do have problems with anyone or/and any country (including my own), when agreements are broken, especially, when this happens due to populistic reasons. "

This is known as DEMOCRACY Mr. Hinteler.

Austria de facto represents all EU peoples, all 25 countries on this subject -- please read your OWN charts!!!


Democracy schmemocracy. You make a promise, you give an undertaking, you keep it.

Broken pledges very bad.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:31 am
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
This is known as DEMOCRACY Mr. Hinteler.


At least the Austrian "Bundes-Verfassungsgesetz" (constitution) is there somewhat more specific.

(But on the other, the famous Austrian Hitler became by such German chancellor and Führer Crying or Very sad )
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:40 am
I agree with Steve: I'd rather not have Turkey in the EU.

But re: Louise Heller's posts, democracy does not equate with ruling by opinion poll.

If democracies were obliged to heed every opinion poll, taxes would be close to 0% but spending would rocket.
0 Replies
 
 

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