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Fighting terrorism by rethinking our national policies

 
 
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 03:46 am
By Max Castro
Special Correspondent
Posted September 25 2005


On 9-11, suicide terrorism entered our consciousness in one searing moment. Seizing on the American people's understandable desire to strike back -- and a tide of support for the commander-in-chief -- the Bush administration mounted a "war on terror." It has included, among other things, the invasion of two Muslim countries, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Things have not gone as the architects of the policy had hoped, and that has brought mounting criticism and numerous attempts to explain what went wrong. What makes Robert A. Pape's book more than just another work in this vein is that the author has done his homework -- a vast amount of it -- and he has the numbers.

Pape, a political science professor and the director of the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, has looked at the phenomenon of suicide terrorism globally and compiled data on 460 individual attackers. The question is what drives the apparent increase in suicide terrorism. The author's short answer: Suicide terrorism works. Thus "the strategic logic of suicide terrorism."

This seems paradoxical. What do successful suicide terrorists win? And isn't self-preservation the strongest and most primordial instinct? The answer that the conventional wisdom gives to the paradox usually involves the promise of a paradise featuring virgins for the taking.

Pape, on the basis of comparative data and numerous case studies, disagrees. He cites, for example, the fact that the leading practitioners of suicide terrorism are not Islamic fundamentalists but the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, whose motives are secular and political rather than religious. Indeed, Islamic fundamentalism accounts for only about half of suicide terrorism worldwide, according to the author.

Pape argues that suicide terrorism is largely a purposeful political act with a clear objective: to drive out those who the terrorists see as occupying their homeland. While the homelands are places such as Chechnya, Palestine, the heavily Tamil areas of Sri Lanka, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq, the actual terrorism can take place anywhere, including Bali, Moscow, Madrid, London or New York.

The author's most telling statistic in support of his controversial argument is that fundamentalist Islamic countries where there is a heavy American military presence have produced 70 times more suicide terrorists relative to their populations than fundamentalist Islamic countries with little or no U.S. military presence.

Individual suicide terrorists are not, Pape asserts, deranged losers, loners mired in poverty, marginal extremists isolated from their communities. Instead, they derive significant support from communities who see them as acting in the cause of national liberation.

Pape uses a classic categorization of suicide developed by the French sociologist Emile Durkheim, and argues that suicide terrorism is not the product of social disorganization but of too much social integration. The terrorists are not deviants from the standpoint of their close-knit communities but rather individuals who make the ultimate sacrifice for the group's cause. In Durkeim's typology, this makes their suicides "altruistic" (for the cause) rather than "egoistic" (for those virgins).

This will strike some conservatives as an exercise in excusing terrorism or providing the terrorists with therapy. But Pape is a pragmatist rather than a liberal or an idealist. He argues that the United States must defeat terrorism but cannot do it by brute force alone or by proceeding from the wrong premises.

If terrorists are motivated by the desire to drive out foreign invaders, then occupying more of their land is exactly the wrong policy. In order to win, the United States must ensure that the use of force to defeat today's generation of terrorists is not so indiscriminate or brutal that it ends up breeding a larger and more deadly generation of killers.

Pape thinks that the United States must protect its strategic interests in the Middle East, but he equates these with oil rather than the spread of democracy. To this end he calls for a policy of "offshore balancing," by which he means working through alliances with local governments and intervening only in extraordinary situations involving vital U.S. strategic interests.

The president has the right and, through his bully pulpit, the ability to try to persuade us as to our national policies. The citizen has the right -- and the obligation -- to consider coherent counter-arguments such as those that Pape has laid out in this volume.

Sun sentinel
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,271 • Replies: 70
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 06:37 am
I'm sure that in school, if a bully took your lunch money, you also re-thought antagonizing him by having lunch at school.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 06:48 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
I'm sure that in school, if a bully took your lunch money, you also re-thought antagonizing him by having lunch at school.


You have to ask yourself why he took that money in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 06:49 am
freedom4free wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
I'm sure that in school, if a bully took your lunch money, you also re-thought antagonizing him by having lunch at school.


You have to ask yourself why he took that money in the first place.

QED
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 06:58 am
Brandon,

Just who is the bully in your example... and what is the lunch money?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 07:05 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Brandon,

Just who is the bully in your example... and what is the lunch money?

The bully is a typical schoolyard bully, and the lunch money is the money given to the aptly named freedom4free by his or her mother from which to purchase lunch in the school cafeteria.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 07:51 am
Fortunately, America is not composed entirely of school children. I think we're capable of a nuanced and thoughtful response to terrorism that doesn't resemble schoolyard politics.

However, as much as I've disparaged this administration, I'm sure they realize that the presence of Americans on Arab (Iraqi, for instance) soil can, and will, antagonize some elements of Arab society. The exact figures are new to me (70 times the suicide bombers!), but these facts don't resolve the long term costs & benefits of invading or remaining in Iraq. Moreover, if Pape reduces Middle Eastern politics to oil, he misses the point and wastes an opportunity to engage quite a few democracy-minded, and perhaps idealistic Americans.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 07:55 am
Who is the bully in your example? The terrorists?
The oil companies? This administration?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 08:06 am
Oh! You meant the typical schoolyard bully.

The big strong kid who you know could beat you in a fair fight. You have something (lunch money) the bully wants that has economic value.

The bully uses his superior strength to get what he thinks he should have.

When my little brother was around 9 or 10, he faced a bully. When he had felt he had enough, he snuck up behind the bully and nailed him over the head with a metal lunch box (true story). This opened up a gash in the top of the bully's head and caused great shock (to the teachers) and awe (to the other kids). There was blood and an ambulance (you get the picture).

The interesting question is still open--

Was my brother's unconventional mode of fighting justified?

My brother was suspended (and if I remember right there was talk of expelling him). But, to many of the other kids, this bully was always controlling the schoolyard at our expense.

Of course, the bully also had some responsibility for his injury. If a bully uses unfair size and strength to control others who can't possibly match you in a fair fight, often for a moment violent acts which would otherwise be unthinkable seem reasonable.

I don't condone what my brother did. But, it is an age old pattern and I understand what he did.

Bully's use superior strength to impose their will. Bully's want a fair fight. Sometimes other kids feel they have different tactics to hurt the bully.


There's your bully analogy... now just how does this relate to a thread on US national policy?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 08:21 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Brandon,

Just who is the bully in your example... and what is the lunch money?

The bully is a typical schoolyard bully, and the lunch money is the money given to the aptly named freedom4free by his or her mother from which to purchase lunch in the school cafeteria.

I think Brandon needs a refresher course on the use of metaphors.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 08:40 am
Actually,

If I didn't know Brandon and read his reponse to freedom4free's original post

I would think he was justifying the acts of the terrorists.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:04 am
Maybe Brandon is actually "rethinking" something.







Nah. That would mean he'd "thought" something to begin with.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:05 am
panzade wrote:
Who is the bully in your example? The terrorists?
The oil companies? This administration?

I answered that above, and clearly too.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:07 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Brandon,

Just who is the bully in your example... and what is the lunch money?

The bully is a typical schoolyard bully, and the lunch money is the money given to the aptly named freedom4free by his or her mother from which to purchase lunch in the school cafeteria.

I think Brandon needs a refresher course on the use of metaphors.

It wasn't a metaphor, it was a speculation about freedom4free's childhood.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:09 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Actually,

If I didn't know Brandon and read his reponse to freedom4free's original post

I would think he was justifying the acts of the terrorists.

You know what I hate about this site? I not only have to state my position, I then have to spoonfeed a simple explanation of it to people over and over until they get it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:33 am
Wrongo, Brandon.

The Bully is the US. The money is Oil. We've been jacking their lunch money for some time.

They have decided to stop giving in to us, not the other way around.

Amazing just how badly you can screw up your own metaphors; priceless, really

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:43 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Wrongo, Brandon.

The Bully is the US. The money is Oil. We've been jacking their lunch money for some time.

They have decided to stop giving in to us, not the other way around.

Amazing just how badly you can screw up your own metaphors; priceless, really

Cycloptichorn

You are incorrect, and badly so. I was being literal and not making a metaphor. I was talking about that member's childhood. What's priceless is that when I post clearly that I intended no metaphor, you still don't get it. I say something exceptionally simple, and then have to spoonfeed a simpler explanation to you people over and over until you finally grasp it. Many of you liberals seem to have the notion that if you induce an opponent to explain and justify some simple statement over and over that you have thereby won something.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:53 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Wrongo, Brandon.

The Bully is the US. The money is Oil. We've been jacking their lunch money for some time.

They have decided to stop giving in to us, not the other way around.

Amazing just how badly you can screw up your own metaphors; priceless, really

Cycloptichorn

You are incorrect, and badly so. I was being literal and not making a metaphor. I was talking about that member's childhood. What's priceless is that when I post clearly that I intended no metaphor, you still don't get it. I say something exceptionally simple, and then have to spoonfeed a simpler explanation to you people over and over until you finally grasp it. Many of you liberals seem to have the notion that if you induce an opponent to explain and justify some simple statement over and over that you have thereby won something.

Shall we speculate about your childhood Brandon? I'm guessing you never won any games as a kid.

Any time someone takes issue with what you say, then it's not that you're wrong, it's that they didn't understand. Here you've either used a poor metaphor, or made a snide comment about a new member. Seems you've chosen to be thought of as rude, rather than taking your lumps.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:57 am
Quote:

I was talking about that member's childhood.


Its not nice talking about people you dont know, what has my childhood got to do with this thread ?

You are a bully !
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 10:03 am
freedom4free wrote:
Brandon9000 rudely wrote:

I was talking about that member's childhood.


Its not nice talking about people you dont know, what has my childhood got to do with this thread ?

You are a bully !

Only 10 posts and you've cut to the heart of it!

Although personally, I think Brandon has more in common with ebrown's little brother. His thought errors make him incapable of winning a straight-up argument, so he dances around trying to deny that he said what he said.
0 Replies
 
 

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