Does there exist a deity?

james, It's impossible to prove a negative. However, some people's faith is so strong in their belief that nothing will discourage them. They believe in the bible - for whatever it's worth. I see it as a book composed by many different men at different periods at a time when women were not considered as equal. I also see many other religions created by men. Some even declared themselves a god. c.i.

I was rather hoping for a response from one of the people whose "faith" is so strong that nothing can discourage them ;-)

Do you think that I might get more luck if I posted this in the religion forum?

james, Yes. Why don't you give it a try. All my siblings are christians, and so are their children. I've become an atheist over the years, because I don't see anything that is redeeming for humans from belief in any religion. My sister's faith is very strong, and nothing will change her mind. I know for a fact that nothing will change her mind. c.i.

You became an atheist because you don't see anything redeeming for humans in believing in a deity? I don't quite understand your thought process here. Why did you not decide what to believe based on nothing other than what is, in reality, more likely to be true?

I think they might sense entrapment and avoid it.

Entrapment? Forgive me if I am mistaken, but isn't entrapment the concept of tempting someone to break the law in order to secure a convictoin against the same?

And surely there must be somebody, somewhere willing to debate this proposition? I have had many very fruitful debates with people on ICQ, many of whom have either given up or admitted that their belief is irrational and highly probably wrong.

In my post it is being used as a metaphor.



Surely.




Emphasis mine. some might not be too willing to engage in a discussions that seems certain to end in their having to give up, argue forever, or reaccess their beliefs.

"Some might not be too willing to engage in a discussions that seems certain to end in their having to give up, argue forever, or reassess their beliefs."

In what sense does a person believe something if he or she knows that it will not withstand logical scrutiny?

By the way, anyone wanting to debate the original topic, rather than the question of whether anyone will debate it, is very much more than welcome :-)))

james,

Don't get me wrong, I am a devout atheist. I'm just telling you that in my experience some do not place as much import on logic and faith is not as much of a dirty word. Such is life. Anywho, back to the scheduled program.

Well, that's the point; to show that there is no rational basis for beleif in a deity.

i would venture to say there is nothing rational about any human activity.

Would you suggest that that is a rational suggestion? Are you suggesting that can establish that all human activity is utterly devoid of any trace of rationality? Would that not require empirocal evidence in volumes greater than any human is able to process?

I agree that there is no rational basis for a belief in a deity.

I also assert that there is no rational basis for a belief in the absence of a deity -- or of deities.

I am an agnostic.

Beliefs are guesses.

Faith is holding tenaciously to a certain guess.

As I said, I am an agnostic. I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are no gods - and I do not see enough unambiguous evidence to make a guess in either direction.

I do get a kick out of people who do guess one way or the other - and then mock or deride the other side for their guesses.

Certainty ought to have two definitions. A strict one (we can be certain only of our own ignorance - as long as lateral thinking is involved) and the practical one (an opinion formed based on the available facts).

JUST GREAT :wink:

Frank's quote, ".....that there is no rational basis for a belief in the absence of a deity." True. However, there is nothing that man has shown to prove the existence of a deity. Only their creative imaginations have produced deities during the history of man kind. With the majority of humans trusting there is a deity does not make it true. Man made creations of gods have done nothing to assure mankind of a better human society. That's the reason why I'm an atheist. c.i.

Well ci, I guess a great deal depends on what you mean by "I am an atheist."

As you know from over at Abuzz -- I hold that there are two kinds of atheists -- one type asserts "I do not believe in God" -- the other asserts "I believe there are no gods."

The former is more along the lines of agnostic thinking. I am an agnostic, and I can easily say "I do not believe in God." (Specicially, buy not limited to, the gods presently in fashion.)

But I cannot go along with the latter sense of atheism. The latter sense is pro-active -- asserting there are no gods.

As I see it, theists insist there is a GOD -- but they usually are willing to acknowledge that they cannot prove GOD exists.

Atheists, especially the latter form of atheism, also insist there are no gods -- and usually are willing to acknolwedge that they cannot prove there are no gods.

Agnosticism, for all the schidt that comes our way -- have a corner on the truth in this matter. There may be a GOD; there may be no gods.

We agnostics acknowledge that we do not know -- and we assert that there doesn't seem to be enough unambiguous, probative evidence with which to form a reasonable guess.

The correct answer to James' question is: We don't know.

It depends on what you mean by the word "a".

Hello James - I am quite sure that you ARE hoping for a
more positive answer - but it isn't one that you can find
here, let's face it --- NO ONE here can give you what you
are aking for. Not one of these persons with whom you
are conversing can tell you yes or no - not one of them
has gone and then returned to tell us what to pack.
My own "feelings" on this subject, are actually prompted
by my own education, which is primarily totally scientific
in nature. Studying for pharmacy is essentially being a
chemistry major. I studied every kind of chemistry that
there is. Not that it has much to do with the actual job
of being a pharmacist, for it doesn't - but chemistry is
an odd and abstract field. Learning about the nature of
the atom, its makeup...and that all that seems so firm,
so solid and so real - is actually composed of atoms, which
in and of themselves are a study of motion - perpetual
motion. Then we have the law of physics that (1)"energy
can neither be created, nor destroyed - it only changes
form" while playing a game of hide and seek, sort of. And
(2) "if you account for all the energies of a system then,
whatever energy present at one point in time - is present
at another instant in time ... just in different forms."
So that from a chemistry/physics point of view - it is, at
the very least, hard to say WHAT happens to the energy
that animates a life form, when the energy leaves a life
form. So .. all we have are questions, and all the answers
appear to lie in the future. However - I think it is more
expedient to spend one's "energy"(pun) considering how
you WANT to SPEND you life. For I think of it very literally,
with each passing moment, we are spending our lives.
Therefore - what I do at this moment in time, is paramount;
isn't it? And, since I have just found out that I have colon
cancer - I am taking a spur of the moment trip to visit my
dear & much loved grandson - Jade. He is only 6 and he and
I miss each other something awful since he moved to S.C. &
I still live in Florida. As for the answers you seek, by all means,
continue your search, and never let anyone deter you from
your course.