jamespetts wrote:Frank - :-) "Do you accept that humans are capable of making meaningful judgments as to the laws of physics, the nature of matter, the constitution of the universe, the origins of life, the nature of existence, the interplay between matter, energy, time and space, the nature and constituion of logic and mathematics, and the origins of the known universe?"I look forward to your response :-)
COMMENT:
I will word this carefully. Please read it carefully.
I think humans ARE capable of making meaningful judgements as to the laws of physics, the nature of matter, the constitution of the universe, the origins of life, the nature of existence, the interplay between matter, energy, time and space, the nature and constituion of logic and mathematics, and the origins of the known universe.
I think the kinds of judgements they can make are severely limited by the severely limited perspecitive we have of all those things.
With regard to Ultimate Questions -- I am an agnostic -- and that holds whether I am in discussion with theists, atheists, OR SCIENTISTS. I am as skeptical of scientific proclimations as I am of theistic or atheistic proclimations.
I'm going to do some guessing here:
I would guess that if all the information needed to make a truly meaningful statement about the origins of the universe -- and indeed, about what constitutes the universe -- were a yard stick -- what we know right now probably would take up space on that yardstick so small that a magnifying glass would have to be used to discern it.
So although I am pursuaded that humans CAN make meaningful judgements on all those things you asked about -- anyone making judgements other than "we honestly do not know enough right now to make any kind of truly meaningful statements about those things presently" -- is probably overstating what he or she THINKS he or she KNOWS.
Scientists talk about the Big Bang the way scientists of the past talked about Earth flatness and Terracentricity -- as though it is something we can look at and determine it to be the case. But almost everything except the most elemental aspects of astronomy and cosmology now being suggested as THE ANSWERS -- could easily be every bit as far off base as the thoughts at one time proposed about Earth flatness and Terracentricity.
We do not know what the universe is -- what elements comprise it. We do not KNOW if the Big Bang occurred -- or, if it did, whether it is only one in a series that have been happening throughout all eternity, etc.
We certainly do not know if the product of the Big Bang is the universe -- or if it is just a tiny dot in the real universe.
During the lifetime of people I regularly debate, Hubbel discovered that what we now call the Universe was not just this mass of stars surrounding us -- but consisted of vast Island Universes strewn throughout a much, much greater space than even imagined earlier in the century.
Something as fundamental and important as galaxies -- were discovered during the lifetime of people posting on A2K!!!
So the answer to your question is: Yes, my guess is humans ARE capable of understanding -- and making meaningful judgements about these things -- but they are also capable of misunderstanding and making completely inaccurate judgements about these things also.
And right now, we really have no idea of which is occurring within the field of science and cosmology.
If you want me to refine any part of THAT answer, James, please ask about it.
Quote:To clarify that question in the light of your answer, I am asking whether you accept that humans are capable of making meaningful judgments as to the probability of things in relation to those matters being true.
See above.