Iraq: How should we proceed?

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Wednesday, August 17, 2005
Associated Press
CLEVELAND -- The day after burying their son, the parents of a fallen Marine urged President Bush to either send more reinforcements to Iraq or withdraw U.S. troops altogether.

"We feel you either have to fight this war right or get out," Rosemary Palmer, mother of Lance Cpl. Edward Schroeder II, said yesterday.

Schroeder, 23, a former South Orange resident and 2000 graduate of Columbia High School in Maplewood, died two weeks ago in a roadside explosion, one of 16 Ohio-based Marines killed recently in Iraq.

The soldier's father said his son and other Marines were being misused as a stabilizing force in Iraq.

"Our comments are not just those of grieving parents," Paul Schroeder said in front of the couple's home. "They are based on anger, Mr. President, not grief. Anger is an honest emotion when someone's family has been violated."

Palmer accused Bush of refusing to make changes in a war gone bad. "Whether he leads them out by putting more troops on the ground or pulling them out -- he can't just let it continue," she said.

White House spokesman Allen Abney declined comment other than to refer to remarks Bush made last week.

At a news conference Thursday, the president said: "Pulling troops out prematurely will betray the Iraqis. Our mission in Iraq, as I said earlier, is to fight the terrorists, is to train the Iraqis."

The Ohio couple have long opposed the war and tried to dissuade their son from joining the Marines, but have made their views public only since his death. Yesterday they urged Americans to voice their opposition to the war.

"We want to point out that 30 people have died since our son. Are people listening?" Palmer asked.

On Monday, dozens of people, including several holding large American flags, lined the streets leading to the funeral for Schroeder, known to friends and family as "Augie" for his middle name, August.

"Yesterday, it was Augie's day and we didn't want to intrude upon his day with politics," Palmer said. "We have to move on and keep his spirit alive by helping to protect his buddies who are still out there."

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1124257922168850.xml&coll=1

I agree with this guy. It is my opinion that the U.S. should either fight this war like it wants to win it, or get the troops the hell out of there. Right now, it's debatable whether we are even winning this war at all. So what do you think we should do, strategy-wise?

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We should declare victory...and get the hell out.

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I didn't agree with going in and blowing away civilians in the beginning but since that was the choice that was made, we need to increase troops and get this over with. The damage is already done. It would cause more damage to just leave now. Get the boots on the ground, secure the borders, and stop the insurgency from the inside out. That's all I can see that we can do at this point. And then, use our brain before declaring preemptive "war" on another country.

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get the hell out... we can't win a goddam thng....

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

get the hell out... we can't win a goddam thng....

AMEN!

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Adios Baghdad..........................

Can't say it's been swell.

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And the embryonic government there, what will happen to it when we scurry off?

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Brandon9000 wrote:

And the embryonic government there, what will happen to it when we scurry off?

Probably the same thing that will happen if we stay...and get thousands more of our men and women killed...and tens of thousands more of theirs.

It will more than likely evolve into an Arab, Islamic theocracy.

Why do you ask?

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Scorpia wrote:

I didn't agree with going in and blowing away civilians in the beginning but since that was the choice that was made, we need to increase troops and get this over with. The damage is already done. It would cause more damage to just leave now. Get the boots on the ground, secure the borders, and stop the insurgency from the inside out. That's all I can see that we can do at this point. And then, use our brain before declaring preemptive "war" on another country.

This is exactly what you were saying 30 years ago.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
And the embryonic government there, what will happen to it when we scurry off?

Probably the same thing that will happen if we stay...and get thousands more of our men and women killed...and tens of thousands more of theirs.

It will more than likely evolve into an Arab, Islamic theocracy.

Why do you ask?

It is looking more likely that you we will get three separate states. A fairly happy Kurdish republic. A Content Islamic Shiite government, and a pissed off Sunni state with few resources.

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The threat no longer exists. Remove all troops NOW!

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ebrown_p wrote:

Scorpia wrote:
I didn't agree with going in and blowing away civilians in the beginning but since that was the choice that was made, we need to increase troops and get this over with. The damage is already done. It would cause more damage to just leave now. Get the boots on the ground, secure the borders, and stop the insurgency from the inside out. That's all I can see that we can do at this point. And then, use our brain before declaring preemptive "war" on another country.

This is exactly what you were saying 30 years ago.

Good point. But as similar as the two are, there are still differences. I guess it just doesn't seem right to leave them in a worse state than we found them - for them, and for us. Like I said, I didn't agree with going in - but we did and now we have to take responsibility and our lumps, even if it means losing more people. You can't go around the world preaching personal responsibility and then go running home everytime the going gets tough. And we're in deep shiite if we leave that area completely unstable. We will need some sort of bargaining power, economically and politically.

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If we're going to be leaving the area unstable sooner or later, why not sooner. There's no stabilizing these people.

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It's Viet Nam all over again. Bush and his advisors have managed to turn victory into defeat through lack of planning and ignorance.
As long as that arrogant moron is in office Americans will die in the lost cause that is Iraq.

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

If we're going to be leaving the area unstable sooner or later, why not sooner. There's no stabilizing these people.

I understand that and can say that I've felt that way many times. But it's not just about today, or this administration. As much as I don't like it, I think that because we bit it off, we have to chew it. And I agree that that region will probably never be truly "stable." It never has and does not look likely that it ever will. But all I want to see a way to keep some face and bargaining power in that region when we run away.

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Scorpia wrote:

blueveinedthrobber wrote:
If we're going to be leaving the area unstable sooner or later, why not sooner. There's no stabilizing these people.

I understand that and can say that I've felt that way many times. But it's not just about today, or this administration. As much as I don't like it, I think that because we bit it off, we have to chew it. And I agree that that region will probably never be truly "stable." It never has and does not look likely that it ever will. But all I want to see a way to keep some face and bargaining power in that region when we run away.

But every indication is that the law of unintended consequences has taken full control of the situation...

...and the admittedly extemely ugly choice of "get out now" seems more and more to be preferable to the ostensibly less ugly "stick it out for a while longer."

MUCH, MUCH, MUCH preferable.

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Keep in mind one thing:

Even if they could somehow see into the future and know for a fact that another 10,000 Americans...and 250,000 Iraqis would be killed by sticking it out...

...and then a pull-out no less ignominius would have to be undertaken...

...so long as there are a significant number of Americans willing to accede to this folly...

...these people would stick it out.

They are cowards...worried only about their own worthless hides.

AND THAT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

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We should declare MISSION ACCOMPLISHED tomorrow...and start the withdrawl.

I think it is going to be a bloodbath when its time comes...

...but better tomorrow than next week...and better next week than next year.

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Scorpia wrote:

I guess it just doesn't seem right to leave them in a worse state than we found them - for them, and for us.

Like I said, I didn't agree with going in - but we did and now we have to take responsibility and our lumps, even if it means losing more people. You can't go around the world preaching personal responsibility and then go running home everytime the going gets tough. And we're in deep shiite if we leave that area completely unstable. We will need some sort of bargaining power, economically and politically.

The question is about the future-- not the past.

What is important is whether our continued fighting in Iraq will make anything better (for us or the Iraqis) in the future. If I felt like American troops could stabalize things and leave a fair and just government (of any sort), I would support it wholeheartedly.

It is clear that the American presence in Iraq is not having a stabalizing effect, in fact it seems to be having the opposite effect. There is no reason to believe that things will change as long as the American´s contine the occupation.

That we screwed up their country is in the past. The people who died are dead. The people who were pushed over to the militants are now with the militants. That´s done. It sucks, but there isn´t anything we can do about it now.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
And the embryonic government there, what will happen to it when we scurry off?

Probably the same thing that will happen if we stay...and get thousands more of our men and women killed...and tens of thousands more of theirs.

It will more than likely evolve into an Arab, Islamic theocracy.

Why do you ask?

Because I think that it is wrong to leave the inchoate government to deal with all the people trying to pull it down.

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Iraq: How should we proceed?

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