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Mon 12 Sep, 2005 09:13 am
"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub" ---Grover Norquist.
The Bush administration political agenda pattern is clear. They are a breed of small government fanatics. Part of this pruning of government is to appoint cabinet secretaries who ideologically want to reduce the size and effectiveness of the agencies/departments they are appointed to manage. They are not there to improve service, they are there shrink services to the point of disappearance. In public, they brag about the good job they are doing but they are, in fact, the kiss of death to the people they are supposed to serve.
The only exception to Bush's mandate are those agencies/departments that support their agenda. The military (industrial) complex, corporate interests, land control for private profit, etc.
People are dying, people are losing their homes, people are becoming increasingly poor, people are becoming more ill. In the eyes of these government officials, people are morphing into shapeless blurs not requiring attention to their needs.
If US citizens don't rise up and put an end to this corrupt and obscene administration, those who continue to support it will deserve what they get. Unfortunately, those of us who don't support it will also be harmed unless we get off our butts and get rid of them.
BBB
Why do we need big Govt? So they can tax me more and give away more of my property to the people who are unwilling?
The Democrats want to continue to keep to poor down. The Democrats want to continue to tax the working class to buy the votes of the lower class.
I will agree, the Republicans offer no better alternative.
So until someone can find a better alternative, it is time to the US Citizens to rise up and end endless govt taxation and give away programs to the unwilling and special interests.
BBB
woiyo wrote:Why do we need big Govt? So they can tax me more and give away more of my property to the people who are unwilling?
The Democrats want to continue to keep to poor down. The Democrats want to continue to tax the working class to buy the votes of the lower class.
I will agree, the Republicans offer no better alternative.
So until someone can find a better alternative, it is time to the US Citizens to rise up and end endless govt taxation and give away programs to the unwilling and special interests.
Well, the first one to pop up is one of the "I've got mine; you can go to hell" gang.
BBB
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:woiyo wrote:Why do we need big Govt? So they can tax me more and give away more of my property to the people who are unwilling?
The Democrats want to continue to keep to poor down. The Democrats want to continue to tax the working class to buy the votes of the lower class.
I will agree, the Republicans offer no better alternative.
So until someone can find a better alternative, it is time to the US Citizens to rise up and end endless govt taxation and give away programs to the unwilling and special interests.
Well, the first one to pop up is a "I've got mine; you can go to hell" gang.
BBB
You think that way because you are a socialist.
Where did I say or even imply that YOU can go to hell?
Re: BBB
[quote="woiyo You think that way because you are a socialist.
Where did I say or even imply that YOU can go to hell?[/quote]
Just now. You imply that I can go to hell because "you are a socialist."
Your response seems to indicate that you are an advocate of Economic Darwinism.
BBB
Or maybe he is one of those wicked individuals who firmly believes in taking care of his family and keeping what he earns rather than redistributing it to those who do not contribute to society other than to stand in line waiting for handouts.
And it is funny how you equate what he said with telling you to go to hell. Guess you have a hard time with reading comprehension. But don't worry, I'm sure there is some government program to pay you for your inability to comprehend the written word. You might want to check into that.
BBB your thread title is incredibly misleading. The government is already down the drain.
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:[quote="woiyo You think that way because you are a socialist.
Where did I say or even imply that YOU can go to hell?
Just now. You imply that I can go to hell because "you are a socialist."
Your response seems to indicate that you are an advocate of Economic Darwinism.
BBB[/quote]
Of course you THINK you know as most socialist think they know better than their own citizens what is good for them.
What proof do you have that they do not?
The high living standards and low crime rate of current socilaistic societies?
Cycloptichorn
What current socialist societies?
Tsk, tsk. Such name calling!
Thinking that gov't should be there in case of major catastrophes is hardly an example of socialism, is it? If that's the case, we may as well have anarchy...
Guess I should have said 'socialistic' or 'socialist-influenced' or 'socialist-leaning' societies...
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:What proof do you have that they do not?
The high living standards and low crime rate of current socilaistic societies?
Cycloptichorn
Stupid people may think Govt knows whats best for them. However, educated people know what is best for them and their families and do not need or want govt intervention.
I'm from the educated lise.
Which line do you belong to?
No Cy, I think what you should have done is give several examples of these socialist, socialist-leaning, socialist-influenced societies. You know, something someone can actually use to compare your statement to the reality and see if it matches up.
Have a good day Cy.
woiyo wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:What proof do you have that they do not?
The high living standards and low crime rate of current socilaistic societies?
Cycloptichorn
Stupid people may think Govt knows whats best for them. However, educated people know what is best for them and their families and do not need or want govt intervention.
I'm from the educated
lise.
Which line do you belong to?
Priceless. How exactly do you sign up for your
lise?
Also, you have mixed descriptors with
stupid and
educated. You don't think there are stupid
educated people, or intelligent
uneducated peopled? Exactly at what point of education does one figure out what is 'best' for them? Is there a class?
Cycloptichorn
Nimh
nimh wrote:What current socialist societies?
As always, nimh, you are always the first to notice the obviousthat everyone else misses.
BBB :wink:
Sorry for the confusion.
I primarily meant 'socialist-leaning' societies, such as can be found in many European nations. I haven't been there so I can't tell you first hand(my knowledge is all second-hand and from articles and books), but I popped over to the Wiki and read this:
Quote:In practice, many aspects of the socialist worldview and socialist policy have been integrated with capitalism in many European countries and in other parts of the world (especially in the industrialized "first world"). Social democracy typically involves state ownership of some corporations (considered strategically important to the people) and participation in ownership of the means of production by workers. This can include profit sharing and worker representation on decision-making boards of corporations (a measure in vigour in Germany, for instance). Some inherently capitalist measures, such as stock ownership for workers or stock options would, however, also fit the description. Social services are important in social democracies. Such services include social welfare for the disadvantaged and unemployment insurance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Socialism_and_the_mixed_economy
Which sounds like what I was thinking, sorry for the poor wording.
Cycloptichorn
BBB
I guess the closest semi-socialist societies would have to be the countries of Scandinavia. They also have the highest standards of living in the world. I think they also have the lowest crime rates. They have the highest literacy rate (except for Cuba, which has the highest literacy rate of all.) They respect and care for their lands.
Their tax rates are high but no citizens lack good health care, good housing, good education, wonderful culture and arts. They even have good food although I found home cooking to be wonderful. Their infrastructure is fantastic and well maintained. Their cities are clean. Their rural areas look as if millions of gardeners had tenderly cared for it.
Much of Scandinavia's economy is based or linked to the Cooperative movement. Cooperative societies, both producer and consumer, are based on member-ownership and working together to achieve the Common Cood. If I had to define my political philosophy, it would have to be an advocate of Cooperative Principles.
I've visited several Scandinavian countries for several weeks, studied it extensively and would love to visit there often if it were not for their long winters. They have short wonderful Spring and Fall, but their summers are glorious
But, unfortunately, they are semi-socialist countries and not worth a rats ass compared to the United States, which appears on the road to becoming a third-rate country. I weep for my country, which I love.
BBB
Re: BBB
woiyo wrote:
Of course you THINK you know as most socialist think they know better than their own citizens what is good for them.
This shows how silly your argument is woiyo.. You are arguing that YOU know better what citizens want compared to OTHER citizens. A citizen that advocates socialism is not instantly wrong. (BBB isn't advocating socialism. but it appears PRIVATE schooling hasn't helped you in understanding the English language)
Governments require taxation to survive. Our form of govt, imperfect as it is is a representation of the majority viewpoint. Your argument woiyo seems to be that we should listen to your LONE VOICE about what is good for the rest of us.
Quote:If I had to define my political philosophy, it would have to be an advocate of Cooperative Principles.
<high-fives BBB>
Exactly!
I have often thought that the best way to achieve progress is by not utilizing pure cooperation, or pure competition, but competition AND cooperation.
We HAVE to start embracing cooperation as a business and life model here in the states; or we will really be paying the price down the road....
Cycloptichorn
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