Are Christians Right or Wrong?

@Investigator,

I understand only too well.

You're an idiot with delusions of grandeur.

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@Investigator,

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God reveals himself to us through direct actions in our lives and through our dreams.

Why have you assigned a gender to "God"?

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Therefore, per God's law we need two- or three-eyewitness testimonies of Jesus to prove that Jesus can in fact remove that death penalty from us if we believe.

Why would belief have any effect on biology? Since one has to be alive in order to form and hold a belief, belief ends with death. So do you. And why do you interpret death as a "penalty"? Penalty for what?

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If we do not have tw0- or three-eyewitness testimonies about Jesus the Law says we are NOT to believe.

How do you verify purported "testimonies" that are over 2,000 years old?

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@hightor,

This is Jasper's MO.

Claim some sort of insight, understanding etc. but when challenged is unable to provide anything except vague simplistic observations.

That's the best it gets, it's usually pseudo scientific babble and claims of being so intelligent it's beyond the rest of us, only obtainable by clever sods like him.

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@hightor,

So you believe that God has a gender?
You also apparently believe that once you die it's over.

In response to your last question, the Gospels are either eyewitness testimonies or they are fabrications. I did an analysis on them and found that there are three eyewitness testimonies and the story of Jesus is true. However, I also found extensive evidence of fraud, which is the reason for the divided Christian church.

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@izzythepush,

Actually there is an ample amount of evidence proving the story of Jesus to be true. But, it takes effort to dig into the details and not everyone has the interest and/or intelligence to comprehend it. From what you've written thus far, I'm pretty sure you have no interest. You may or may not have the intelligence to comprehend the big picture, but without an interest it's a waste of time sharing any data with you trying to figure out if you have the ability to understand.

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@Investigator,

Two months later you come back with a straw man.

That all looks pretty sad, stupid and desperate.

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@izzythepush,

Your comment calling me a fool was sad, stupid and desperate. My response was timely and accurate.

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@Investigator,

Investigator wrote:

Your comment calling me a fool was sad, stupid and desperate.

Investigator wrote:

Depending on the source calling someone a fool could be a complement. Thanks for calling me a fool!

Two responses you made to izzy.
Contradiction, inconsistency, hypocrisy.

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@Investigator,

I never called you a fool, I called you an idiot.

The fool has a long and noble cultural significance.

"Better a witty fool than a foolish wit."

A fool would know the difference, but there's no hope for bloody idiots.

Remember what I said about delusions of grandeur?

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@Investigator,

Investigator wrote:

I try to be respectful of others thoughts while sharing my analysis and conclusions. I didn't get any warnings or statements from the moderators indicating that I did anything against the rules, but two posts ended up closed and I could no longer comment. I've only been shut down in other forums when the moderators didn't like the subject matter so I'm leaning towards attributing it to that. People don't like to hear that there's actually evidence proving Jesus.

No there is not "evidence proving Jesus"...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

There is lots of ambiguous evidence that someone existed that we now refer to as Jesus of the Bible...but none of it "proves" that the person existed.

And as for the "Investigations" you have done which "prove" any of the other things you suggest you have proven...it, too, is so ambiguous that it does not prove anything.

A god or gods MAY exist (have existed)...or no gods have ever been involved in the REALITY of existence.

I do not KNOW which it is...and I strongly suspect that none of you out there (if there truly is anyone else out there) knows either. All we can do on the question is to make a guess...which is essentially a blind guess in one direction or the other...OR simply acknowledge we do not know and leave it at that. Either guess may be correct...but both cannot.

We can discuss that if you want.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

There is lots of ambiguous evidence that someone existed

There were lots of messianic figures around at the time, the biblical Jesus could easily be an amalgam.

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@izzythepush,

I've often had the same thought.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

There is lots of ambiguous evidence that someone existed

There were lots of messianic figures around at the time, the biblical Jesus could easily be an amalgam.

That has often been my guess, Izzy. Glad to see that you and Edgar head in that same direction. For this Investigator guy to suggest he has "proof" is (to be kind) questionable. But...I certainly am willing to discuss it with him. I am sure you guys and others will join in.

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@Investigator,

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So you believe that God has a gender?

No, you do. Here

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You also apparently believe that once you die it's over.

No, once I die I am over.

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I did an analysis on them and found that there are three eyewitness testimonies...

And just how did you verify that those "three eyewitness testimonies" were not simply manufactured to make it seem that three people saw Jesus and wrote their own accounts which then survived intact until the christian bible was assembled from various writings by St. Jerome around 400 AD?

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@hightor,

We have no contemporary accounts of Jesus (that is, accounts written during his life).

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@Walter Hinteler,

The people he would have been speaking to in Roman Palestine were not likely to have been literate. The survival of any contemporary accounts, were there any, would have been very unlikely. The numerous contradictions in the Gospels back up the contention that the writings were assembled at a later date but not edited for consistency.

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@hightor,

Agreed.
There are (hardly) any Roman everyday or administrative documents from this specific period in Palestine, as the main documents are lost (or perhaps not discovered until today). What we have originated in later, Romanised cities (Greek-speaking).

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@hightor,

The Gospels are the only evidence we have to determine the truthfulness of the story of Jesus. The Gospels are either eyewitness testimonies or they aren't. An analysis of the documentation proves there are three eyewitnesses who provided their testimony. A good place to start is Mark 13 that describes who the eyewitnesses are and when they testimonies will be documented.

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@hightor,

Saying "likely" and "very unlikely' is not evidential, it's a guess. I agree there are contradictions in the Gospels, but that is due to the founders of the Catholic Church who edited some of it to support their theft of the New Covenant of Jesus church. Separate the fraud from the facts and Jesus is proven to be the resurrected Son of God.

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@Investigator,

They aren't. They're third, fourth, fifth hand accounts full of Chinese Whispers, wishful thinking and downright lies.

Luke lies about the census of Quirinius.

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