Being Fat or Smoking: Why is One Worse Than The Other?

LOL

You're a smart woman for putting a disclaimer on here Smile

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Bella Dea wrote:

You are considered obese if you are 20-40% over your ideal weight.

So a man with a medium frame at 6' who weighs 204 lbs is considered mildly obese. I know a lot of guys who could fit that profile.

<looks at chart>

Hmm, 5'6" and at 123 pounds, not bad. Very Happy

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sozobe wrote:

A big problem is what's affordable -- lots of studies about for a poor family it's cheaper to eat at McDonald's then put together a good, balanced meal from the supermarket.

I find this a little hard to believe. For one, eating out at McDonald's isn't that cheap anymore, at least up here it isn't.

Furthermore, there's lots of simple, inexpensive meals one could prepare which would be more healthy than the above food. Take rice or pasta, for example. Depending what you serve it with, it could be quite economical and nuitritious.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

I've talked about this with my friends: it's RARE to find American women who don't have un proportionally big asses. And I'm talking 20-somethings. They all chug beer and eat crap. Then bitch they can't find men.

I'm betting that there would be an equal number of men who had "beer guts".

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Reyn wrote:

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
I've talked about this with my friends: it's RARE to find American women who don't have un proportionally big asses. And I'm talking 20-somethings. They all chug beer and eat crap. Then bitch they can't find men.

I'm betting that there would be an equal number of men who had "beer guts".

Yes, very true. There's just as many out of shape guys. Except I don't have sex with men, so I pay more attention to asses on women than guts on guys.

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Slappy, I thought 'junk in the trunk' was all the rage! Laughing

TG there's still some guys that like a normal sized azz. ha!

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Kind of timely - I received an email today from a health care newsletter I subscribe to. In this one they talked about emotional overeating. I tried to summarize some of the highlights and suggestions to help overcome this.

Experts estimate that 75% of overeating is caused by emotions. Many of us learn that food can bring comfort, at least in the short-term. As a result, we often turn to food to heal emotional problems. Eating becomes a habit preventing us from learning skills that can effectively resolve our emotional distress.

Situations and emotions that trigger us to eat fall into five main categories.
Social. Eating when around other people. For example, excessive eating can result from being encouraged by others to eat; eating to fit in; arguing; or feelings of inadequacy around other people.
Emotional. Eating in response to boredom, stress, fatigue, tension, depression, anger, anxiety or loneliness as a way to "fill the void."
Situational. Eating because the opportunity is there. For example, at a restaurant, seeing an advertisement for a particular food, passing by a bakery. Eating may also be associated with certain activities such as watching TV, going to the movies or a sporting event, etc.
Thoughts. Eating as a result of negative self-worth or making excuses for eating. For example, scolding oneself for looks or a lack of will power.
Physiological. Eating in response to physical cues. For example, increased hunger due to skipping meals or eating to cure headaches or other pain.

First step - To identify what triggers excessive eating in you, keep a food diary that records what and when you eat as well as what stressors, thoughts, or emotions you identify as you eat. You should begin to identify patterns to your excessive eating fairly quickly.

Developing alternatives to eating is the second step. When you start to reach for food in response to a trigger, try one of the following activities instead.
Read a good book or magazine or listen to music
Go for a walk or jog
Take a bubble bath
Do deep breathing exercises
Play cards or a board game
Talk to a friend
Do housework, laundry or yard work
Wash the car
Write a letter
Or do any other pleasurable or necessary activity until the urge to eat passes

To more effectively cope with emotional stress, try
Relaxation exercises
Meditation
Individual or group counseling

As you learn to incorporate more appropriate coping strategies and curb excessive eating, reward yourself for a job well done. We tend to repeat behaviors that have been reinforced, so reward yourself when you meet your nutrition management goals. Buy that blouse, take that vacation, or get that massage you wanted. By rewarding yourself for a job well done you increase the likelihood that you will maintain your new healthy habits.

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Reyn, here's the first cite I found, can go looking for something more specific:

http://www.bu.edu/washjocenter/newswire_pg/fall2004/massachusetts/obesity1202.htm

Excerpts:

Quote:

Because people of higher socio-economic backgrounds have more access to healthy foods and more money to spend on the recommended diet of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, lean meats and fish, they have a leg up on dodging the obesity epidemic, according to many experts.

Conversely, nutrition experts believe, and studies show people of lower socio-economic backgrounds, opt to buy cheaper foods -- white bread and sugary treats, for example -- that tend to be unhealthy.

This is compounded by the fact that low-income areas generally have fewer grocery stores and higher concentrations of fast-food restaurants, not to mention fewer outdoor spaces and parks for exercise.

The limited outdoor space, the lack of grocery stores, and the high cost of produce in poor areas create the perfect recipe for obesity.

Quote:

n accordance with Drewnowski's studies, Laura Segal, spokeswoman for Trust for America's Health, said in interview, "Low-income zip codes tend to have fewer and smaller grocery stores than higher-income zip codes."

As a result, she said, "people in low income areas pay more for nutrition. The cost of items in a city might be higher because there are fewer supermarkets available, so the cost of produce is higher." The supermarkets available to poor people are in sharp contrast to Whole Foods stores, Segal said.

Quote:

In looking at the relationship between diet quality and diet cost, the Department of Agriculture is trying to come up with a healthy diet that costs $100 a week for a family of four. "But once you put the cost constraint in, you are pretty much driven toward mayonnaise, crackers, white bread, ground turkey, Kool-Aid, sugar, inexpensive things," Drewnowski said.

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Reyn wrote:

sozobe wrote:
A big problem is what's affordable -- lots of studies about for a poor family it's cheaper to eat at McDonald's then put together a good, balanced meal from the supermarket.

I find this a little hard to believe. For one, eating out at McDonald's isn't that cheap anymore, at least up here it isn't.

Furthermore, there's lots of simple, inexpensive meals one could prepare which would be more healthy than the above food. Take rice or pasta, for example. Depending what you serve it with, it could be quite economical and nuitritious.

Here in america, if you have 20 bucks, you can buy food for several days.
We have hotdog packages that have something out rageous like `15 fat grams per dog, for .99 cents. Bread loaves that are 89 cents that have 200 calories , 15 grams of sugar per slice..
With things like that available, it is easy to eat cheap for a family who lives paycheck to paycheck.
Mcdonalds is a cheap " treat' of a meal as well. ( resorting to Noddys post about reward eating)
Here you can get a simple cheeseburger for 69 cents. small fries for that same amount and something to drink for 1.00.
A family that doesnt have alot of extra money can afford the 'treat' meal for 5 dollars or less.
Unfortunatly what is affordable isnt always healthy.

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Here's how the states ranked for their reported percentage of obese adults in 2004:
Mississippi: 29.5%
Alabama: 28.9%
West Virginia: 27.6%
Tennessee: 27.2%
Louisiana: 27%
Arkansas: 26.1%
Kentucky: 25.8%
Texas: 25.8%
Indiana: 25.5%
Michigan: 25.4%
Ohio: 25.3%
South Carolina: 25.1%
Missouri: 24.9%
Oklahoma: 24.9%
Georgia: 24.7%
North Dakota: 24.6%
Pennsylvania: 24.3%
North Carolina: 24.2%
Maryland: 23.9%
South Dakota: 23.8%
Alaska: 23.7%
Iowa: 23.5%
Maine: 23.4%
Kansas: 23.2%
Nebraska: 23.2%
Wisconsin: 23.2%
Virginia: 23.1%
Illinois: 23%
Florida: 22.9%
Minnesota: 22.6%
Washington, D.C.: 22.5%
California: 22.2%
Washington: 22.2%
New York: 22.1%
New Jersey: 21.9%
New Hampshire: 21.6%
New Mexico: 21.5%
Arizona: 21.2%
Oregon: 21.2%
Delaware: 21.1%
Nevada: 21.1%
Idaho: 20.8%
Wyoming: 20.8%
Utah: 20.4%
Massachusetts: 18.4%
Connecticut: 19.7%
Montana: 19.7%
Rhode Island: 19%
Vermont: 18.7%
Colorado: 16.8%

Wonder what the stats are of poverty in these states. Also, notice that the majority of states with high obesity rates are in the south - anything to do with that fried chicken, pork fat stuff I see on Emerl? Also, lowest rates seem to be in New England (except Colorado), maybe higher education with all the colleges?

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I have said this on more than one occassion to people who say they can't afford leaner meat, healthy fruits and vegs.......

It's cheaper than angioplasty.

At one point in my "former" life life w/ my ex-husband, we were at the point that all I could budget for ALL groceries, including paper products, pesonal care and cleaning supplies was $50.00 per week. Oh, and gasoline too was included in this.
This was I think in 1990?

The only way I could manage was this....

Each day I alloted $7.00 for our daily needs.

If I didn't go to the store one day, I stuck it in a box and had $14.00 for the next day.

We had a gym memebership (both of us had been long term members before we even met, something like 89 dollars a year) and a grocery store right across the street....

I would walk over there, buy 2 or 3 of the cheapest fruit they had on sale, small amount of fresh vegetables, skim milk, brown rice, store brand cereal like cheerios or unsweetened cornflakes or oatmeal. Store brand tuna fish, dry beans, peanut butter, wheat bread, spaghetti etc. When I saved up a dollar here or there during the week, I would buy some chicken. This went on for the better part of a year.

I was a nutritionists wet dream, and actually, I was happy with a least that part of my life.

Yes, it took some effort to think of creative ways to incorporate these items into something you didn't get tired of.....but I learned I could do it, and it wasn't the hardest thing I've ever had to do by far.

It's not even a lack of education, as shewolf I think said, we all know what we're supposed to do.

It's habit, and being preoccupied with other things you have to do just to get by day to day when you are poor.

I read this book "nickled and dimed" about a woman who was a reporter and went out to live for some time, not using her education or connections.

There were some good points made in the book about the working poor. For instance, transportation issues. Where the poor live and where they work can be accross town, if you don't have a car or gas for the car you can't get to work if public transportation doesn't go that way.

However, I was appalled at the lack of basic life skills this woman had. For instance, she thought making a big pot of lentil soup would be cheap and would last a few days. She had a hot plate in her cheap motel room.

Then she was stymied by the fact that she had to buy a pot, dishes silverware, pot holders, ladles dishwashing soap, sponges, napkins etc.

She could only think of going to walmart and spending something like $15 or $20 for the pot alone.

Honey lamb - you buy a $1.50 dented pot from the salvation army or goodwill, take some napkins and spoons from any fast food place you walk by, use the towel in your hotel bathroom as a potholder, use that plasic mcdonalds spoon to stir, ladle and eat your food, and if you're too proud to eat out of the pot and share your own germs, buy a plate for a quarter while you getting the pot.

Shewolf, you would be my guru in this, how do I score?

OK - got of subject, but the point is, the poor can eat more healthy than they are.....we are just socialized to open a plastic container full of garbage and call it good.

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One of the points in that article I quoted from and that I have seen elsewhere is that there are assumptions even about what kind of grocery stores are available in poor areas and what they stock. Like, we imagine going to our own local grocery and what we could buy there for cheap == but they often don't even have that option, or the "fresh" food is significantly more expensive.

Quote:

Laura Segal, spokeswoman for Trust for America's Health, said in interview, "Low-income zip codes tend to have fewer and smaller grocery stores than higher-income zip codes."

As a result, she said, "people in low income areas pay more for nutrition. The cost of items in a city might be higher because there are fewer supermarkets available, so the cost of produce is higher." The supermarkets available to poor people are in sharp contrast to Whole Foods stores, Segal said.

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Yeah soz that's true as well.......

I the poor part of town things are way overpriced at the grocery stores

The 2 main reasons are the fact the owners know they can get away with it because the poor can't get elsewhere to shop, and also, insurance premiums for the market I'm sure is WAY higher than in a neighborhood where places like stores aren't held up every day.

One thing though, is getting over appearances. Whole Foods fruits and vegetables look prettier. The apples being sold in the bin down at Bubba's Bacon Grease Grocery Emporium will be smaller, nearing in freshness to "I better eat this right away before it goes bad" maybe not as nicely round and not a pretty uniform red, but it packs the same nutrition.

Meat is a different story, I'd do without first.

sigh, I know, it's hard....

I remember in the $7.00 a day days how hard it was to avoid the trap of instant gratification sometimes.

You'd go so long, doing the right thing, being ok with it, then, all of a sudden, you'd get an extra $5.00 or 10.00 in your hand.

At times, I'd think "screw it, on paper it looks good to put this $10.00 aside, but damn, it's been so long since I ate ice cream/had a cigarette/went to the movies/fill in the blank. I HAVE to take a break from this.

Other times, I could save the $10.00. But you know, I really don't look askance at a poor person enjoying their cheap cigarettes, my god, it's all they have, and I'm not going to be the one to take that away from them.

That is the culture of the poor.

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I have observed that there is some truth to claims that it is more expensive to buy nutritious food in 'poor' areas (and simply some areas in general).
When I spent time further north, (this happened to be a reservation where most 'western food' is flown in), it cost me A LOT to eat. Luckily, the people there were very resourceful and kind; and I always managed to eat healthy while there. I simply switched my diet to include more wild meat etc.

Still, I find a lot of people use this as an excuse for being fat. For the majority of people, poverty is not the reason. Poor choices in food and lifestyle are at the root.

For those who are living in poverty, it is still more economical to choose healthier foods. It may cost more to buy some bananas and fish versus the highly processed foods, but in the longrun it is smarter. You can always get some milk, potatoes, and other such things. Unfortunately, here in Canada (and I'll venture to say the US) : those with money always have more margin for making stupid or luxurious choices.

thanks

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sozobe wrote:

Reyn, here's the first cite I found....

Thanks, soz. Good article, although I'm not 100% convinced that poorer people could not eat nuitritious if they were so inclined. It probably is somewhat to do with what shewolf says about the "treat meals" that are cheap.

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Linkat wrote:

Here's how the states ranked for their reported percentage of obese adults in 2004:
Alaska: 23.7%

Now why would a state like Alaska be in the middle of this list, sitting at 23.7%?

You would think that more people would be outdoor types getting more excercise and perhaps eating more fish?

Anyone got any answers for this one?

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Reyn wrote:

Linkat wrote:
Here's how the states ranked for their reported percentage of obese adults in 2004:
Alaska: 23.7%

Now why would a state like Alaska be in the middle of this list, sitting at 23.7%?

You would think that more people would be outdoor types getting more excercise and perhaps eating more fish?

Anyone got any answers for this one?

Yeah, I notice Wisconsin, North and South Dakota are right up there too.....

When I moved to Wisconsin I thought I'd find a lot of hardy souls, not only shoveling snow, chopping wood (well, maybe not that) as well as engaging in fun outdoor activities.

What I found was that most people did everything they could in the winter to stay inside, and they don't call 'em cheese heads for nothing.

Laughing

Once, in the middle of February, someone asked me if I wanted to go out for some custard......where I come from, custard is a nice eggy pudding with nutmeg sprinkled on top.....I thought "What an odd, yet charming idea, going out for warm pudding"

Wrong, custard, I learned is high fat ice cream. Oh yeah, just what I want when it 10 degrees farenheit out.

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Reyn - maybe something to do with the winters - little if no sun for days on end, extreme cold, therefore people don't get out much and eat to relieve depression or boredom.

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I think I need to clarify what I mean by ' lack of education'.
I think it is understood that I dont mean college vs high school style education.
And there is NO way that anyone in the country of america doesnt know that calories, fat, carbs, protein... etc.. are part of a healthy diet. And there is a balance of those that needs to be met to be able to -eat right-.

what i mean by lack of education is that most people dont know how food is raised, grown or processed and how that is causing alot of health problems.
Obesity being one of them.
The hormones, anti biotics, growth hormones and other things that cows are pumped with are damaging peoples immune systems.
They are destroying the natural enzymes in our intestines creating problems in food absorption.
Infections are rampant in cow utters. Usually on the tips because they are soo full of un natural milk production they drag on the ground. They blister, get pussy , bleed... and then the utters are placed in milking machines and guess where all that blood and puss go? right in with the milk.
Well, a counter to that is that the cows are given anti biotics ANYWAYS so how is that a problem for us?
Well.. 1) we as humans can not take continues doses of anti biotics.
It strips our intestines, digestive enzymes, and effects all other microbes that are essential to survival.
With out those, we can not properly digest our food.. obesity being a side effect of that exposure. Im racing down the line of explanation here.. mostly to keep this post short..
Milk is advertised as a healthy additive to a diet. That it actually helps people loose weight . Rolling Eyes

Milk does little to provide a good amount of calcium.
Lactose breaks down like sugar in the body . Wich fuels fat cells

Chicken is treated much the same way.
The amount of time it takes a chicken to get to full grown size is about 7-9 months. Pump them with hormones and you have a full grown chicken in 3 months. How is eating the meat of that animal healthy?Or the cow that was given all those drugs? They are what they eat. So essentially , people are sitting down to a meal of drugs.

Vegetables are grown with pesticides that are slowly being linked to many cancers of the liver. Immune deterioration, and some brain diseases.
Pesticides are geared to kill living beings. We are living beings. So how can anyone be healthy eating that? The chemicals in pesticides are geared to break down living organisms to bring about death.
So .. we only get a small amount.. we dont have to worry about that..?
So if we dont have to worry about that, why the need for organically grown veggies?
Why are we told to wash our fruits and veggies and not take ones that are blistered in the skins? We have alot of the same organic material in our bodies that small insects and birds do. They are what these chemicals are geared towards. Can you REALLY say that pesticides are not going to bother your body?

So.. veggies and mass produced meat aside...
What about the chemicals in packaged foods?
You know red dye #24 ( or something like that) causes lung cancer?
Breaks down the pancreas? Wich is necessary for blood sugar regulation? You also know that it is found in DOZENS of products?
Did you know that ' natural flavorings' as a listed ingredient can hide things like MSG?

........... i better get off that soap box.
But with that simple explanation.. i hope you can understand what I mean when I say 'lack of education'.

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Haven't read this yet, looks good:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/nyregion/09promise.html

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Being Fat or Smoking: Why is One Worse Than The Other?

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