Is there some "blame" that should accrue?????

Intrepid wrote:

Frank,

Are you suggesting that I am lying? Yup, this is your usual form when you don't have something to say that has any substance.

Why do you insist that we have fears? The only fears that I have are when people like you write your hatred and it is available for impressionable children to read. You are the monster, Frank. You are what the little children will see when they say their prayers and are tucked into their beds at night. You try to spread your hate and then accuse Christians of forcing themselves on people.

Frank, you are the one that starts these threads. Not us. Think about it. What is your agenda here?

Jeez, Intrepid...I've explained that so many times...I cannot get over that you have not read it by now.

It is my opinion that religion is a huge net negative for society...and I think anyone with any intelligence and sense of civic duty should be doing everything possible to point out the deficiencies and hypocrisy of religion.

That's why I'm doing this, Intrepid. I am doing this out of love for humanity. And, since I also love you....I am doing everything I can to get through to your subconscious. I know I cannot get through to your conscious self...because you are simply too afraid of the truth to acknowledge it. But the subconscious is another story.

I think I am getting through on that level. And if I am right...and the truth finally breaks through to the conscious mind...

...all I can hope is that you are not repairing a roof...or defusing a bomb.

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Intrepid wrote:

It wasn't meant to be cute, Frank. Is that the best you can do? Are you afraid of reality?

It was cute whether you meant it to be so or not.

No, I am not afraid of reality...which is the reason I am an agnostic.

That is dealing with the truth.

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Intrepid wrote:

It wasn't meant to be cute, Frank. Is that the best you can do? Are you afraid of reality?

It was cute whether you meant it to be so or not.

No, I am not afraid of reality...which is the reason I am an agnostic.

That is dealing with the truth.

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Once would have been enough, Frank Laughing

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Again you are making assumptions about me and my beliefs. I do not believe the Bible verbatim as I stated before.

I do not have to prove I am not afraid as I am not bottom line.

There is no connection between my daughter's fears (as all little children have these fears - more separation anxiety than fears) and God. She talks to her imaginary friend too and sleeps with stuffed animals for comfort. I suppose these are all fearful images too.

You seem to be the type of person that just likes to argue for arguments sake and likes to twist any statement around to fit your argument. I have a friend like that and she at least admits to it. She truly enjoys the argument and as often as not argues things even she doesn't believe it simply for the sake of it.

I have shown I am unafraid of God. And really have no need to prove it to anyone else. You still have not proven in any concrete way that I am afraid.

Frank - again you are taken the literal English translation of Deuteronomy. You are not interpreting from the source or looking at various opinions of what this could mean. Reading the King James Version of the Bible is simply going to get you an English version of what man interpreted from the original writing. Not to mention that the original writing was by men also - which we all agree is fallible.

Reading the English version is not any where the same as interpreting the meaning of the Bible.

Frank - like I said faith is a feeling - you cannot understand it or appreciate it unless you have experienced it. So unless you are willing to try to understand it and not be hard headed about it, then you cannot have an opinion on whether some one is fearful or not.

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Frank I like natural desasters (and morn the people who are injured and lose love ones) but I do not get very upset because it is a good reminder for us that we are not in charge. Is that logical to you?

My belief includes god but I never ever blame or give credit to that belief system for stuff that happens to me or others good and bad.

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Linkat wrote:

I have shown I am unafraid of God. And really have no need to prove it to anyone else. You still have not proven in any concrete way that I am afraid.

How have you shown you are unafraid of god?

How????

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Frank - again you are taken the literal English translation of Deuteronomy. You are not interpreting from the source or looking at various opinions of what this could mean. Reading the King James Version of the Bible is simply going to get you an English version of what man interpreted from the original writing. Not to mention that the original writing was by men also - which we all agree is fallible.

Reading the English version is not any where the same as interpreting the meaning of the Bible.

Okay...so tell me what the original said that would change the essentials of anything I have quoted!

Do it.

Let's discuss what you know to be the original...and let's discuss these differences that you suggest exist.

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Frank - like I said faith is a feeling - you cannot understand it or appreciate it unless you have experienced it. So unless you are willing to try to understand it and not be hard headed about it, then you cannot have an opinion on whether some one is fearful or not.

Why not?

Are you suggesting that because I've never been pregnant...I cannot say that delivering a baby hurts like all blazes.

I am of the opinion that fear...both of the unknown and of dying....is at the crux of doggone near all religion.

You say you do not fear your god.

All I've asked you to do is to reprove the god because of a half dozen examples of crap the god has allowed to be foisted on the world.

Instead of doing so...you are making excuses for the god.

Link...everything you say and do indicates that you are terrified of your god. And quite honestly, since it appears your god is the cartoon character described in the Bible...I DO NOT BLAME YOU ONE BIT FOR BEING TERRIFIED OF IT.

If I thought for a second that god had any influence over this world..or over me...

...I would be terrified.

But I not particularly superstitious...and I am intelligent enough to see the nonsense for what it is...

...so I have no problem in that regard.

You do.

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JoanneDorel wrote:

Frank I like natural desasters (and morn the people who are injured and lose love ones) but I do not get very upset because it is a good reminder for us that we are not in charge. Is that logical to you?

Yup.

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My belief includes god but I never ever blame or give credit to that belief system for stuff that happens to me or others good and bad.

Good point.

I have been addressing my remarks to people who do, however, give credit and thanks to their god for the good stuff.

I'm just asking for consistency.

You seem to be consistent. No thanks or credit...no blame or reprovement.

Cabeesh???

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Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

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the bible?

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mesquite wrote:

Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

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Intrepid wrote:

mesquite wrote:
Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

Strange contortion of the English language. By your analogy then we should call children that want to please their parents "parent fearing". IMO a better term for what you are describing would be "God pleasing" or parent loving.

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Intrepid wrote:

mesquite wrote:
Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

"God fearing" means exactly what it says...no matter that occasionally theists get into Internet discussions and want it to mean something else for a few minutes in order to make a point.

You people quake in fear of your god....and for good reason. The god of the Bible....the god you are pretending not to fear...is one of the most fearsome gods ever invented.

Frankly, I'd think much less of you if you were not afraid of that god.

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mesquite wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

Strange contortion of the English language. By your analogy then we should call children that want to please their parents "parent fearing". IMO a better term for what you are describing would be "God pleasing" or parent loving.

The whole bible could be a strange contortion of the English language. It was NOT originally written in English. You asked a question and you got an answer.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

"God fearing" means exactly what it says...no matter that occasionally theists get into Internet discussions and want it to mean something else for a few minutes in order to make a point.

You people quake in fear of your god....and for good reason. The god of the Bible....the god you are pretending not to fear...is one of the most fearsome gods ever invented.

Frankly, I'd think much less of you if you were not afraid of that god.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. What is "you people"? How do you know what people fear and what they do not? Why do you accuse people of pretending? These pathetic attempts to goad people are getting to be tiresome. You do not have a nice thing to say about anybody or anything. You do not accept anything anybody says unless it fits in with your idea (guess) of what should be right.

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Intrepid wrote:

mesquite wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Can any of you non-afraid Christians explain why so many Christians are endeared to the term God fearing?

Sure, since you asked and obviously do not know. However, I have posted this several times in the past.

God fear is not the "fear of God", it is the fear of doing something not pleasing to God. Just as a child would not want to disappoint a parent. Fear and trembling is only for those who do not have faith and are afraid of the unknown.

Strange contortion of the English language. By your analogy then we should call children that want to please their parents "parent fearing". IMO a better term for what you are describing would be "God pleasing" or parent loving.

The whole bible could be a strange contortion of the English language. It was NOT originally written in English. You asked a question and you got an answer.

Try to wake up, Intrepid.

The comment "god fearing" has very little to do with anything written in the Bible...although the Bible very often tells people to be in fear of "the Lord"...and with good reason.

But...most of the people using the expression "I am a god-fearing" person...are using the language today...and meaning exactly what the language intends for it to mean.

So stop with the "you are misinterpreting" nonsense. (MORE ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT.)

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Intrepid wrote:

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

You'd be amazed at how many clues I have about what I am talking about.

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What is "you people"?

People like you, Intrepid. People like you.

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How do you know what people fear and what they do not?

The same way thatk you know that they don't?

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Why do you accuse people of pretending?

For the same reason I occasionally "accuse" a duck of quacking.

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These pathetic attempts to goad people are getting to be tiresome.

I don't think they are pathetic at all. I think they are quite effective.

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You do not have a nice thing to say about anybody or anything.

I have lots of nice things to say about people and things. But you don't like people who tell the truth and who give opinions about things with which you are in disagreement...so you are not willing to acknowledge that.

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You do not accept anything anybody says unless it fits in with your idea (guess) of what should be right.

Like you do!!!!!

This is a discussion forum, Intrepid. Not a holy-roller meeting. Try to get the difference.

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What is it with these Christians. Every time anyone brings up something from the Bible that they don't agree with...they start this "you are misinterpreting" nonsense.

Look...

...you are essentially telling us that there is a GOD that made everything...

...a personal GOD that wants us to know what IT is like...what pleases IT...what offends IT....what it expects of humans.

This GOD...made planet Earth; the other planets; the sun; the other 200+ billions of suns that make up our galaxy; and the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know exist.

Are you telling me that this GOD cannot manage to get ITS story out...the story IT wants to share with us....in a coherent, dependable form...so that each of us KNOWS what IT is like....what pleases IT...what offends IT....and what IT expects of us?

What on Earth are you thinking of?

What kind of tortured logic will you folks use, I cannot wait to find out, to rationalize this?

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Frank - about being pregnant - you can know that it hurts like the blazes because you have not experienced, but can you know for sure? You are taking it on faith. Perhaps all us women are lying and faking it to make you guys feel guilty about it. You can't know for 100% sure can you.

But say you can. You may know it hurts like heck, but you don't know how it actually does hurt. There is no way since you never felt it. You can never know either how it feels to feel a baby move in your womb. You can try to understand how it may feel, but you will never know how it really does feel.

I am not terrified of God and have no reason to criticize Him. I have nothing to be upset about. Like others all Christians have from time to time swear or yell at Him. If we were so afraid why would we do this. Just the nature of many Christian beliefs is if you ask for forgiveness you are forgiven. So you can say your damned worst to Him and nothing happens anyway because you are forgiven. Just this morning I swore several times Jesus Christ as I was trying to get out of the house on time. I hate saying that because it is usually my own damn fault, but I haven't been struck down and I am not fearful that I will.

Simply, as God is all forgiving there is no reason to fear Him. I have never heard anyone in my church state I am a god-fearing person. Also, by classifying all Christians in one group is making a huge generalization. There are so many different facets of Christianity. Some take the literal King James version and abide by it verbatim - others in the other extreme do not believe that you can read the Bible literally and it should be simply be used as a tool. One minister I know does not believe all the death in destruction in the First Testament. Most Christian Churches I know focus their teachings more on the Second Testament.

You stated it was your opinion that Christians feared God. That is simply it an opinion. You cannot know for sure so it is an opinion. In this case, it is a wrong opinion as I can state for fact what I feel. It is true there are some Christians who fear God (unless of course they were lying to me) - they stated such. But there are many who do not. And since you cannot be capable (unless you are omnipotent) of knowing what is in each and every Christian, you cannot know whether or not they fear God.

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Linkat wrote:

Frank - about being pregnant - you can know that it hurts like the blazes because you have not experienced, but can you know for sure? You are taking it on faith. Perhaps all us women are lying and faking it to make you guys feel guilty about it. You can't know for 100% sure can you.

I did not say I "know" it...let alone that I "know it 100% sure. I know very, very few things 100% sure.

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But say you can. You may know it hurts like heck, but you don't know how it actually does hurt. There is no way since you never felt it. You can never know either how it feels to feel a baby move in your womb. You can try to understand how it may feel, but you will never know how it really does feel.

Well a woman tried to explain it to me graphically one time. She told me to grasp my upper lip....and pull it out from my mouth as far as I could. When I told her that it hurt...but was easily bearable...she told me to pull the lip over the top of my head.

So I do have a notion of how much it hurts...although I easily and willingly acknowledge that I do not know experientially.

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I am not terrified of God...

As courteously and respectfully as I can...I must disagree with you here. I suspect very strongly that you are in dread of your god. I don't think you can get in touch with that on a conscious level, Link...but if you want to test it....there are ways.

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Simply, as God is all forgiving there is no reason to fear Him.

Well...every indication is that you are guessing that there is a God...and now you are guessing that the God is all-forgiving.

Why are you guessing that way?

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I have never heard anyone in my church state I am a god-fearing person.

Well...I have heard it from Christians all over the place. Put "God fearing Christians" into a Google search...and you'll get a million and a half hits.

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You stated it was your opinion that Christians feared God. That is simply it an opinion.

Yep.

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You cannot know for sure so it is an opinion.

Yep....just as you have an opinion that there is a God....and that the God is all-loving.

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In this case, it is a wrong opinion as I can state for fact what I feel.

Actually...you can't. Fear is a very funny thing. It can run deep.

If you don't fear your god...why don't you test it?

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It is true there are some Christians who fear God (unless of course they were lying to me) - they stated such. But there are many who do not. And since you cannot be capable (unless you are omnipotent) of knowing what is in each and every Christian, you cannot know whether or not they fear God.

I can offer an opinion...and I will.

Here's one: I think you are in dread of your god.

I don't blame you. You worship the god of the Bible...and if ever there was a god that should be feared...that god should be.

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Is there some "blame" that should accrue?????

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