Protests in America: Reality, or Reality TV?

Hmm. Interesting. I know what you mean, I think, though I haven't been watching these protests on TV.

If you take the 60's out of it I'd be more likely to agree with you, but I think the 60's are highly romanticized/ idealized. When I was a protest organizer I spoke to a lot of 60's vintage folks, and one thing that kept coming up (as an example) is that there was all this dumb hierarchy within the protest culture. The privileged white boys were overwhelmingly in charge, even when they were protesting in favor of equal rights et al. The women were included but were supposed to be the ones to get the food together and follow what the men decided. Etc., etc.

So, 60's aside...

I don't think it has to be either/ or. I think Moveon is doing some really good stuff in that they're so big and so organized and can get things accomplished. I love the whole concept of millions of people being connected by the internet, of being able to get something going like that. <snap>

But I know what you mean about a certain corporate taint, would hope that little spontaneous local things would break out, too.

Let me point out a big difference. A lot of us white middle class 18 year-olds protested because there was a draft and we were going to a hell hole for no political reason that we could understand. Sure, I had something invested when I joined the throng at the Pentagon Protest...my lily white ass.
Mark my words...if a draft starts looming for Iraq...you'll see some protesting.

Kicky,

I thought you were in the marketing business.

For better or for worse, marketing is the name of the game in our culture. It is always about image and catch phrases.

Who is the icon of the civil rights movement in the 60's? How was he successful. The march on Washington which, more than anything, was a brilliant PR campaign sure to get the attention of the media and the public at large, is one of the seminal moments in our history.

Rosa Parks was a spontaneous act, but I doubt she was the first person to defy these laws. Rosa Parks was again used brilliantly in a well-designed media campaign.

The march on Washington of Dr. King wasn't even the first march on Washington designed to frame an issue in the media. Before Dr. King was the Veterans marching on Washington. This was before TV, but the game was still the same... get into the papers.

If you want to get anything in our society, you need to play the game. If your cause is important, you had better play it very well.

This is nothing new. Playing to the media has been an important part of every successful movement for hundreds of years.

There are lots of ways to protest in impotent privacy. But if you want to make a difference, you better know how to get good publicity... and once you get it, you better know what to do with it.

If we didn't follow the rules they would plow us down.We have to be very carful how we present ourselves. The right and the left are competing for everybody in the middle.If we tried to march without a permit that would be illegal, A sure riot.

If you want to see for yourself theres a demonstration Sept 24 at the Whitehouse. You don't have to be in it. You can be an observer. Witness a part of History. P.S. Kicky, lots of hot hippie and punk chicks.Big parties afterwards with no politics.

I think I get what you mean, kicky. I think that even if there were spontaneous and more real, for lack of a better word, protests, eventually the usual suspects from both sides would drown them out.

Anymore, I feel like silence is the best protest. When people start spouting their propaganda and look at you waiting for you to back them up with the slogans they're used to, dead silence usually puts them off. I have my opinions and sometimes they align with one side or the other, but I have no loyalty to any cause and probably never will. I have to imagine that a lot of these protests start out with some people like me, who happen to be united with others because of one issue and nothing else. But inevitably they degenerate into these slime fests and marketing campaigns.

Maybe to us forty somethings the 60's protest seem more real than anything going on today. We don't have any MLK or even a John Lennon singing "Give Peace a Chance." All we seem to have is a bunch of Toby Keith's singing about blowing up the sky red and white and blue.

puhleeeze...nothing's changed.
We had Merle Haggard singing Okie From Muskogee and Fighting Side Of Me...although I have to admit, Merle came out squarely against the invasion of Iraq.

You guys had John Lennon !? We got a seventeen year old kid wearing a ski mask, hitting a busted snaredrum with a tree branch.

Well, we do have GreenDay, so it's not all bad.

panzade's observation is particularly good. If there were a draft, there'd be a whole lotta protesting going on. Not just the potentially draftable young people but a lot of people who know them -- and that's a lot of people.

I think that explains some of the tone, too. The people who are protesting this are of a type -- they don't necessarily have a personal stake in it, but they think the war is wrong and so they say so.

If it's people who have a VERY personal stake in it -- namely, they don't want to be forced to go die for a stupid war -- the tone will necessarily be different.

Holiday
Hear the sound of the falling rain
Coming down like an Armageddon flame (Hey!)
The shame
The ones who died without a name
Hear the dogs howling out of key
To a hymn called "Faith and Misery" (Hey!)
And bleed, the company lost the war today

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On holiday

Hear the drum pounding out of time
Another protestor has crossed the line (Hey!)
To find, the money's on the other side

Can I get another Amen? (Amen!)
There's a flag wrapped around a score of men (Hey!)
A gag, A plastic bag on a monument

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On holiday

"Hey!"

"The representative from California has the floor"
Zieg Heil to the president gasbag
Bombs away is your PUNISHMENT
Pulverize the Eiffel towers
Who criticize your GOVERNMENT
Bang bang goes the broken glass land
Kill all the fags that DON'T AGREE
trials by fire setting fire
Is that a way that's MEANT FOR ME?

Just cause, just cause, because we're outlaws, yeaahhh!

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives

This is our lives on holiday...

Oh thanks, Bella. I've been jamming out to that song every day in my car. Now I can sing along.

good stuff

I heard this Randy Newman song on the radio a couple of weeks ago. It made me laugh (No one likes us), because it was apparently written in the early 70's. So...I guess all this "anti-Americanism" stuff has been going on since before I was even born!

No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Now asia's crowded
And europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And canada's too cold.
And south america stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

Bridge:
We'll save australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-american amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

Well, boom goes london,
And boom paris.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another american town.
Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Yeah, Newman is pretty cynical. Good tune JW

On the flip side theres a hoax e mail from Robin Williams goin round that points out the frustrations of the Red folk.

Subject: Fw: Pass this on


> Go Robin!
> You gotta love Robin Williams...... Even if he's nuts! Leave it to
Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN
> Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.
>
> Robin Williams' plan....(Hard to argue with this logic!)
>
>
>
> "I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan
> for peace. So, here's one plan."
>
> 1..) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
> affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good ole boys,'. We will never
"interfere" again.
>
> 2..) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with
> Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't
want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
>
> 3..) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and
> leave. We'll give them a free trip home! After 90 days the remainder
will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are.. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
>
> 4..) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!!!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be
> allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide
> here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more
> cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
>
> 5..) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers.
> If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
>
> 6..) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy
> wise. This w ill include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but
will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The
caribou will have to cope for a while.
>
> 7..) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel!
> for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go
> somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells
filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
>
> 8..) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not
> "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
>
> 9..) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We
don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
>
> 10.) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one
> can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
>
> 11.) The Language we speak is
> ENGLISH.....learn it...or LEAVE.....!
>
> Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
>
> "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your
tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You
want a piece of me? you ungrateful bastards!' "
>
>
>
> YOU GOTTA STAND FOR SOMETHING, OR YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
Unfortunately that's what's happening to this country. We, the people, need to stop being afraid to say what we think for fear of "offending" someone. These people don't care if they offend us, so why do we care??? Stand up and say
enough is enough! We don't want it anymore!
>
>
>
> If you agree with the above forward it.......... If not, (and I would be
> amazed), DELETE it, but if you do shame on you!!!!!
>
>
>
>

I'd bet he's conservative LOL. Just a hunch. "I Love L.A." is my all time favorite of his. I've seen him sing it and so whenever I hear it, it cracks me up