Questions about people who feed poison to loved ones

Isn't that munchausen?

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Marc_Feldman_2/

Munchausen's by Proxy - only the name has changed...

Er Munchausen's has become Factitious Disorder - not sure what the by proxy is.


Er - not sure it has been recorded as done to an adult - anyhoo, here are some links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/medical_notes/3528517.stm

http://www.munchausen.com/

http://www.jaehakim.com/articles/lifestyles/munchausen.htm


http://www.vachss.com/help_text/msp.html


http://www.ashermeadow.com/Whatis.htm

http://www.ashermeadow.com/caseacct5.htm


http://sids-network.org/experts/msp.htm


There'll be heaps of crapola about it on the web - there is a recent book by an adult who was thus abused as a kid:

Sickened




There are some major splits in mental health about who ought, and ought not, be identified as meriting the diagnosis...

I am postulating the making ill of a spouse.

Hmm - normally a child abuse thing - but, hey.....who knows?Amazon search results

Although the syndrome is usually seen in mother/child, it is not beyond the stretch of the imagination that it could occur with spouse/spouse.

Are you sure that the person isn't attempting to murder the spouse? Years ago, a middle aged woman who lived on my block used to walk an apparently old man in a wheelchair. He was her husband, who was NOT an old man, who subsequently died.

The story was that she had poisoned with arsenic (which builds up slowly in the tissues.) The police knew it, but did not have enough proof to indict her.

I am at work now. Will check back this evening.

Edgar if you're looking at the legal aspect of it then the jurisdiction in which the story is set probably has a criminal prohibition against it. I know in my own jurisdiction there are several offences involving what are called "deleterious substances" (apparently it was very popular in England and so it found its way into our law when our province - later state - was settled by the English)

So far, nothing about adults poisoning spouses without trying to actually kill them.

I suppose a woman could ply her gout-prone husband with forbidden foods to guarantee that he'd be immobilized for the weekend.

I'd think Munchausen's by Proxy would cover the behavior--particularly if the intent of the spouse concocting and administering the noxious substance was to garner glory as an Angel of Mercy.

I remember an old, possibly Hitchcock story. Apparently, a woman was married to a man with a heart condition. She became a gourmet cook, fed him the most delicious, fattening foods, loaded with sauces, and killed him that way!

I've always thought that an outraged housewife could commit a dandy murder by leaving a home-made, egg-based mayonaise out at room temperature overnight.


I have my grandmother's recipe....

Evil woman!

Edgar is not talking about murder.


Edgar - I see no reason why you could not expand Munchausens by Proxy behaviour to cover a spouse.

You are not writing specifically for a mental health professional audience, are you?

It's speculative fiction, for a general audience.

Well, I tried Google Scholar - and I can get summaries like "the victim is RARELY an adult" - but I cannot get to the articles without paying.

If you search psychiatric journals you should be able to find if any are written up.


Look - people write steaming piles of **** about mental health issues in fiction all the time.

You are likely to be doing a better job than most if you have a good look at the child stuff - and see if you can find a couple of adult presentations.

My ex-SIL was diagnosed as having Munchausens. For years she would have weird symptoms and go from doctor to doctor, be given dozens of tests, and even undergo some surgery. She would be diagnosed with all kinds of problems which, no matter how serious, would eventually disappear. Whenever a doctor would suggest she seek psychological help she would find a new doctor. She was a trained nurse and we later learned her knowledge of medicine helped her create the symptoms, many of which seemed real but were induced by her.

I mention this because we learned the reason people do this is because they are addicted to the attention it gets them. They do not want to kill themselves or their object of harm (when it's by proxy). They just get a high and a feeling of importance when they talk about the illnesses and they love the fact that important people, like doctors, are paying attention to them.

from a chemistry standpoint, there are a number of chemicals that can be given in sublethal doses that build up a titer, which results in the symptoms

1 antifreeze

2 acetaldehyde

3 arsenic and thallium

4 nicotine

There are quite a few others , these are , in sublethal and accumulating doses, generally undetectable, except for arsenic which has a garlicky smell at low levels.

Many chemicals can be administered as binary compounds where it takes 2 to actually cause a chronic response. (like the use of pewter ware and acidic fruits served thereon) The acid will leach the antimony and lead.

That reminds me of the old movie, arsenic and old lace -
such a nice film.

In some homes, such an attempt is referred to as "home cooking" . . . [wink]