Born Gay?

Again? Aw. Bullwinkle that trick never works. In other words this question has an answer that will never satisfy everybody since everybody has already formed their own opinion.


I was born gay. No question about it. I was leering, lusting and ogling men from the earliest days of my life. There is no way anyone is going to convince me that it was some weird moment in my first hours which "turned me queer". Sorry to have to break this news to all of you but I was there long before then.

I fought it like a mad man as well as I could and for as long as I could. No, I never strayed into the area of marriage; I did however attempt relationships with women, dating 5 different ones over a 6 year time frame. alas the effort was all for naught as I finally realized that I was a homosexual. Believe me, this is not a choice that I would have made, however it is who I am and what my sexuality is. Further I do not believe God has any objection to my sexuality even though the college I went to undoubtedly does and would have if I had been out of the closet back then. Needless to say they would have extracted me from their school as quickly as they could have (it was a Methodist school). God, in my view is more concerned with how I live my life and conduct myself than with who my love interest is. Provided of course that my love interest is not somebody who is involved with another, since clearly that would be wrong behavior on my part.

As to how gay people reproduce it is a long story and there are many methods. Clearly a gay woman can have sexual relations with a man and become pregnant and even a gay man can have sexual relations with a woman and impregnate her. There is also the ever popular in-vitro fertilization method. So, if Jane is a gay woman and Fred is a gay man and they both want to have a child they can visit a fertility specialist or some other doctor involved in these matters and behold, through modern science, a child. Maybe even two or three or four or more (hope Jane really wants those stretch marks).

All sorts of creatures in nature eat their young. What's your point? That people should behave like animals?

Loss of control: It has been my experience that the more conservative an individual he is, the more concerned he is about being able to control his environment.

Someone who lives life in a manner quite different that oneself represents a threat to that individual. The threat is a threat to the ego in the sense that one's own choices may prove not to be optimal; it is also a subconscious threat to one's security in the sense that the other may prove to be more successful.

Again, the threat here is an emotional one, not a real, tangible threat. And again, there's no real-world evidence to support it. But emotion is what drives the bigot.

The reason for the emotion is actually a primal instinct. When one examines the dominance-submission behaviors in other species, they often have sexual overtones, especially in other primate species. If a dominant male wants the food or mate posessed by a subordinate, he'll often bite the subordinate, causing him to yelp in pain and drop the food or the female, and then present his rump.

It is the presentation of the rump that is key here. It's saying to the dominant male and the rest of the troupe that the subordinant male is submissive and that the dominant male can have his way with him, regardless of the extent that may take. It's essentially a submission to rape, should the dominant male desire to do so.

It is that instinctual fear of rape that drives much of homophobia. Straight men often instinctually see gay men as a threat, and they instictively fear that threat. It's a fear of a loss of control, of dominance, of status.

The threat is very real - in some rare, isolated circumstances. This instinctive means of asserting dominance is the source of prison rape. It's why men, who on the inside of prisons rape other men with brutal frequency become promiscuous heterosexuals on the outside. Such men almost never have sex with other men as a means of emotional sharing, it's rather a violent act, intended to control, assert dominance and force other men into a subordinate position.

Well, straight men, you can relax. The vast majority of us gay men don't want our way with you. We have sex for the same reason that most of you do - as a part of the expression of love, caring, concern and commitment. Since we're not likely to get it from you, you're not attractive to us and you have nothing to fear from us

Bella Dea wrote:

There are signs of homosexuality everywhere in nature. Animals don't choose so why would you think humans do?


Sodomy in Nature
Same Sex Preference
Homo Penguins?
Birds do it...Bees do it...
Same Sex Preference

So these animals are actively choosing to be gay or engage in homosexual acts?

All sorts of creatures in nature eat their young. What's your point? That people should behave like animals?

.Not much to choose from and not very interesting on a major scale.

RealLife wrote:

All sorts of creatures in nature eat their young. What's your point? That people should behave like animals?

****Flash**** I don't know how long it has been since you have hit the biology books, but man IS part of the animal kingdom.

Behavior and orientation are two different issues. We are speaking of whether a person is born gay. This has nothing to do with value judgements of behavior. [/color]

What would your response be to a rapist who claimed to be "born that way" ? What about serial killers who thrive on the sexual gratification it brings and claim to have no control over it?

Regarding your inclusion of Man as a (mere) animal, that would be a matter of opinion. Many folks hold that while man's body is analogous to an animal's that Man himself is more than just an animal.

My response was to Bella Dea's description of animal behavior. I asked what her point was since the discussion was not initially focused on behavior.

Man's biology may be animal but his behavior doesn't have to be. One can argue that they were born with a hot temper, but that doesn't mean they cannot change it. One can argue that they have a short attention span, but that doesn't mean you have no self control. One may argue that they have an overpowering heterosexual sex drive that cannot be curbed, but again we expect them to be able to exercise restraint and self control.

In short, there are many things that we may claim to be "born with" but in reality we can exercise control over.

What would your response be to a rapist who claimed to be "born that way" ? What about serial killers who thrive on the sexual gratification it brings and claim to have no control over it?